Wake up, Buy Here, Pay Here people. It's a beautiful day. Go grab yourself another cup of joe and say hello to Jim and Michelle Rhodes on the Buy Here, Pay Here morning show. Take it away, you two. Hey, I think that you're muted. Oh, there you are. Okay, excellent. Hey, welcome. We're trying something a little bit different until we get a new soundboard. It's a crapshoot. It's just luck. That's true. That's true. Yeah, so Jim posted this morning a picture of outside, and we've been like, experiencing rain and lots of birds coming out and all of that and it snowed last night but it wasn't a ton but it was so pretty we we do um coffee time every morning uh side note but like it's a possum because possum is related to I'm certainly recognizing squirrel means totally different subject possum means related um when we had our group here for our our white highway certification one of our um one of our dealers that is now certified um excuse me, Vic and Vic might be watching. Um, we were talking about coffee time and he saw the pat and he's like, I thought you guys just sat in front of the, uh, your desks before you started the podcast and had coffee. And it's like, Oh no, we're outside. And it's a serious commitment. It is. It's like an hour and hour, hour and a half. That's usually what we, you know, we try not to bring electronic equipment, but sometimes that doesn't, Especially if we are a little delinquent in getting a podcast pushed. Yeah, I know, right? Yeah, that's true. That stuff happens. Still ready for spring. Yeah, so it might be the last round of snow for us, at least at our elevation. And so the mountains will probably still get a few more rounds. So it's not too late. For those of you who are planning a ski trip, come on out. I'm sure there'll be plenty of snow. Oh, yeah. Yeah, up in the mountains, if you're a skier, there's tons of snow. Yep. Um, uh, anything else before we kind of dive into, it's just kind of a mishmash what's happening on social media. Today's kind of a run through on things that we've seen on social media. And so, so this, this actually ties into coffee talk cause you know, our coffee time in the morning, uh, Jim and I, business partners, married. We talk about buy here, pay here at least seventy five percent of the day. It seems so. Yeah. So yeah. So and a lot of times we'll discuss in the mornings some of the some of the things that are. But like happening that, you know, we just yeah, current events and stuff, and so we've got Good morning from Los Angeles. Good morning. Happy to have California represented this morning. Yeah, absolutely, from YouTube. Yeah. Okay, so which topic do you want to start with? So let's talk about the post from Alan Keat. Alan won't mind us mentioning his name here. Those of you who know Alan has been in the industry for quite a while, was... Would he call him a dealer principal or he was like a general manager? He was the owner of a finance company. And so he's somebody I first met through entrepreneurship circles here in Utah. So I knew him before I knew him as somebody in the subprime auto finance space. But yeah, Alan is somebody who, you know, is really a wealth of information because he He owned a finance company that bought paper. So in the bulk space, he put this really interesting post in there, which just says, look, I'm no longer in the business of buying. No. Yeah. So no dog in the fight. So this is just. Yeah. So it was it's really interesting. And I do look forward, by the way, Alan, if you're listening or anybody who's talking to Alan, tell him you got an open invitation to come and appear with us on the podcast, because I love these kind of conversations to be able to kind of break down what he does. But he kind of laid out dealer A, dealer B. Here's one selling paper. Here's one not selling paper. And so I think it was really fascinating. I think the thread was interesting, the way people chimed in there to kind of respond to what he offered. And it's really interesting stuff. I mean, there were dealers kind of coming in on both sides of it. You know, I had dealers saying, yeah, but what about interest? Yeah, but what about reinsurance? Yeah, but, right? Yeah. And this has actually been a conversation since I stepped in, just celebrated my fourth year of being business partners. The topic around selling notes has been, you know, we've discussed it. We've discussed it with clients. We've discussed it. We've even discussed it with Alan because we sat in their offices in Texas and we had a conversation kind of around this. And so, you know, this is something that a lot of, a lot of dealers look at. And, you know, there were, there were opinions around, everybody does. So either you're going to do it now or you're going to do it when you close operations. That was somebody on his team that mentioned that, that, you know, everybody sells paper. And I just remember thinking at the time, well, gosh in my career I've met a lot of dealers who have never sold paper yeah what prompted me to throw the poll out there this morning yeah so we could get a feel for you know what percentage of dealers and it would be better if we had it where it was kind of you knew how many dealers were established yeah like five years or more that have never sold uh, paper, but we meet a lot of dealers and we work with them. And so I think, I think we certainly know a lot of dealers who have never sold paper. That's, and of course many of them, it's a capitalization question. Somebody chimed in. Yeah. So you like the, just, just overall, um, are you, are you, uh, with the right circumstances, are you like, yeah, you should probably sell paper. I don't have a dog in this fight. Okay. Nevermind. Okay. No, it's just it's yeah, it's just math. It's like and one person chimed in today, I think this morning and said, you know, it's really about opportunity cost and which cost you choose because they both have a set of opportunity costs. Right. And that's absolutely true. And so I think here what we're talking about is could it make sense for a dealer to sell paper? Absolutely. If it's you know, it's a capitalization question. They've got the funds to hold the paper and they're good at collecting them. Maybe they want to keep the paper. If they have the capital, but they don't particularly enjoy the collecting or they're not particularly good at it, then it probably makes sense to turn loose of the paper, right? But there's so many layers to this. There's the interest earnings. There's the customer relationship aspect, which came up. Which is our like, that's our shtick is all right. You know, and as we've worked with dealers and new dealers that are getting into business, one of the first things you ask them is how well that depends. How do you want to be known by your community and your customers? And so that that's like that's an overarching from from the perspective of what we teach. Yeah. that's an overarching thing. And so it was interesting to watch some of the comments coming in. And it's like, if you're talking about relationships, you're talking about like having long lasting relationships where you're doing the ten to thirty year approach. You are you know, you have repeat customers. Tommy was like, I've got four generations. Someone else says I've got three generations. And they're like, yeah, we don't do that because of the relationship. So is it possible to sell paper and keep a relationship? I don't know how that works. I mean, I can't say that. I've not seen it. I don't see dealers engaging with customers after they've sold their paper. It doesn't mean it's not happening. I just haven't seen it. But I think the part that fascinates me, and let me go a different direction. When we meet dealers early, like you say what we teach. Well, when we meet dealers, it's their business. It's their name on the building. So we're just trying to lay out for them Here are some options. And I'm working with a dealer now who's been an independent retail dealer for some time and now is looking to start a finance company. And so they're going through the math. And it's really fascinating when you look at the math that we always work with, with our dealers, like we got this source data from clients and now V eight groups and we can, so we can kind of lean on, some raw data that is representative of the industry and just kind of fresh, right? Current industry status. And we apply those and this dealer is looking to create a finance company, but they're only going to be involved on one side. They're going to source the paper from the dealer at the point of sale. And we haven't worked. I don't know what his plans are about recourse and, you know, what kind of steps he's going to be requiring stipulations for those are new. Like what kind of we would be requiring to buy the paper. But when you look at it just from the finance company side, he's not going to participate in the dealership side at all. Then it's really interesting what the test that the math does. It's like, how does the math stand up when I'm acquiring the paper point of sale? And what does that look like for the dealer? In this case, it doesn't affect him. But now what does it look like for the finance company that acquires the paper? And what are the earning potential? And so it's just interesting. I know that, listen, here's the thing I would say about the post from Alan. Alan's a heck of a bright guy. Oh, yeah. And he's he's he's had heavy analytics tools behind the scenes running all kinds of high math. Oh, yeah. And so he's he's got really good history of good data. Right. And so or or at least a good volume of data. Right. And so now what that does and the reason I think it's fascinating to have conversations with people like Alan is I think the part that. we recognize from our travels is, and of course what we teach is really, we settled into a lane around the intangibles, right? The squiggly lines. For those of you who are new to listening, we kind of put all of the things that are associated with buy here, pay here and business in general, straight lines, squiggly lines, straight lines are your operational type of things. The things that are math or the things that are, you know, policy, but then there's the squiggly lines that can affect, the decisions for the math, but it's, it's the intangibles. It's the stuff that it's the, it's the heart piece of the equation. It's like, there's, there's other things to consider here. Sometimes it's business culture. Sometimes it's, it's a lot of things. It's, it's customer relations for sure. And it's many things. But I think Alan's post was, I didn't see anything in there that would be, there were people that were saying, we're talking about fuzzy math here or whatever. But I was like, I think when you go back and read Alan's post, there's some things that I would, you know, bring to the question. Like more. Yeah, I could bring more to the stuff. I think what we can do, and I didn't get a chance to pull it together today, but I can go back to his post and share what our, experience has been with dealer markups right and so but all the all that that's the thing about spreadsheets as you know michelle you can adjust levers you can move the numbers you can shift one number over here and see the impact of that it's the thing about working with numbers like this but I think the part that is is hard to ever understand about this is what is the cost like it's it's challenging for A lot of businesses, to measure this, but especially, you know, buy-here-pay-here dealers don't have good access to this kind of data for the most part. And what is the cost of a lost customer? You know, that kind of that opportunity cost or that cost of customer acquisition, the lifetime value of a customer. Well, and that's like the whole for what it is that the White Hat Way is about and all of that. That is... That's really the crux of the question. We're not saying one is right and one is not right. It's like, what's your end goal? What's your why? And if your why is to... My battery's getting low. If your why is to just make a lot of money and, you know, and run a business that you're going to make the most amount of money as you possibly can, there's not enough data tracking to see how putting the customer first is different than, you know, the turn and burn. Sorry, did not mean that. Turn and earn. Turn and earn. Thank you. um jack I apologize but uh but it's it's the it's the churning of customers because you're not concerned about the thing you're just concerned about selling the car and not about having a relationship with with the consumer But, you know, at the end of the day, we're running a business. And if that business strategy is going to work for some, and then they're just looking to build wealth and whatever, that could be a path to wealth. Yeah, well, and that was, it was return on equity. So it was, Rudy has a couple of comments in here, and Rudy Enriquez, I believe. There's definitely reasons to sell paper. Growth is not one of them, from Rudy's opinion. And we find it, I find it disingenuous when salesmen are the educators for the industry. Yeah, that's fair. And I think that's where, and Alan was clear, like I'm not in that space anymore. So he's not selling. He's like, Jim, thank you for the shout out, Rudy. Jim is a good source because he doesn't have an incentive to push you into any direction. It's just about knowledge and, And then, Rudy, you're like on spot today, I guess. Great point. You should look at what's the value of repeat customers and their collectability. Maybe you collect sixty five percent of random customers, but collect eighty five percent on repeat customers and that are valued over ten years. So that's that, that is that, you know, what is, and we're, we're, we're in a position to really start to measure that as we have new dealers that are white hat certified and that we're, you know, really starting to measure how, how, Their collectability, how their portfolio, you know, what happens to their portfolio in the process. And, you know, we have our assumptions in that, that it is in the long run a much healthier portfolio. Yeah. And we did the math on that. lifetime value of a customer. A while back, we did a podcast a couple months ago, but I think this is the area where I see us doing more of our work going forward is helping dealers better quantify those things that are fuzzy or intangible out here on the perimeter of the business that do affect decisions because we want to make sure that look, as we keep saying, like we just want to make sure there's plenty of good information in front of dealers, dealers, data that is reliable and is transparent enough that they can, without compromising privacy, we want to be able to put data in front of people so they can make their own decisions. Like these are smart people across the industry. They can make their own business decisions. We just want to make sure they've got good information to work from and doing that and more complete information. So that includes for us sometimes the intangibles, which we don't have all the pieces. Now I share with you this morning, like, I don't have enough data. And I don't know if anybody in our industry has got enough data. Maybe, maybe the twenty group people, if they can bring that. Specifically on this point. Yeah. And I, I, I guess it's a tricky one because you would have to follow it from one dealer who's self-servicing versus sending to an outside capital provider. Yeah. Like an A-B test. What's that? Like an A-B test. Like an A-B test. But it's like in this case, it's challenging because. Say I'm dealer X in Georgia and I sell my paper, you know, to finance company Y who's in Texas, right? And they got a team of collectors and so they buy the paper and I'm out of the picture in Georgia. I've sold my paper. I collect my cash. Maybe my recourse period's already passed and now I've got my cash. What I can't say today is... Do the finance companies who collect that paper from some cubicle in another state, do they yield as much from the portfolio as a dealer who does their own servicing? Obviously the dealers who do their own servicing, that's going to vary. We see it across VA. There are some that really are not very good at servicing. And so this is the part that's kind of, ideally you would follow that all the way through, but we can't say, I can just say fundamentally it's, it's my, experience that a, a team that's local, that has a good, um, they have a good culture and attitude about collections and they support the customers through reinsurance or whatever kind of other support solutions they have. Then it's my experience that those people collect really well. It, it, to me, um, it's kind of like, uh, yeah. Uh, When a dealer comes in and they're about, you know, sell the paper, right? We originate and we sell. That's really not very different from an independent dealer, except that you're dealing with people that have lower credit scores. And so it's kind of the same thing as you've got an outside financer and you're just doing it with a different credit score. And then those that get that this industry is not like independent retail. This is about you're a finance company. And that's where a lot of the wealth and the long stand, the stability and everything comes from. You're a bank now. And so do banks... Most of the time, banks don't turn around and sell their contracts, their loans. Mortgages they do. Mortgages they do. That's in the prime sector. Yeah. So it's kind of... I see too that there's... It also depends on how you are approaching this business. Are you approaching the business as I'm a finance company? And so this is why I'm in and having the opportunity to develop relationships and all of that. Or are you in this because this is a way to turn cars into And it's sell, sell, sell, because I know I can sell that. I don't have to worry about collecting because I'm just going to, I'm going to sell the paper. There's a name for that in the industry. I've heard it called buy here, pay there. Yeah. Right. So, but let's, let's clarify something for people who are listening that it would be newer to it. there's, there's point of sale. Like you was talking about how it compares to independent retail. So an independent retail dealer is not going to hold the paper. They're going to have a buyer for the paper from the moment they contract the sale. For the most part, there are dealers that, you know, would, would contract the customer and send them home in the car and have multiple options. But again, for the most part a dealer's already got the paper sold they may still be negotiating price and whatever but they got the paper sold before the customer takes delivery of the car in our business what you're talking about with bulk is they're more likely to the dealer's going to originate the paper they're going to have the risk They're going to accumulate a certain number of contracts and then they're going to sell those in bulk. It could be as few as five contracts I've seen, but dealers more likely to hold till they got ten, fifteen, twenty contracts and they sell them off in bulk. And what Alan was proposing in his post is seasoning for twelve months, which we have reasons that we think, you know, the paper can be more valuable because repo experience, you get past the peak of the repo experience and then the paper is going to be worth more. So there's a whole lot of math here to figure out. But I think putting math aside for a minute, because this is what kind of where we live, is when you put the math aside for a minute and say, OK, there's short term math and there's long term math. Right. And so there's short term strategy and long term strategy. So we got to really look at the whole thing to make a judgment because. You know, people talked about growth and the problem with selling paper and growth. And we've seen that. We've seen dealers who sold paper, got a nice price out of it, got a nice, you know, a bunch of cash. But they they stunted their growth. Right. In terms of portfolio earnings, if they were going to build a portfolio and enjoy the earnings from that. So it's it's really a big decision for people. And I think, you know, I appreciate it. It's like he's just laying out math. Yeah. And I think what we can do is come back. Some of his math points we can bring back. Yeah. And share. And I would love to bring Alan in and talk to him because he used forty eight months. We've been talking in our V eight groups a lot about twenty four months. Why? Because we find that there's most dealers don't have much of a percentage of their customers who pay past twenty four months. So I'd really like to examine that across a twenty four month window, because if I'm a buy here, pay your dealer, I can say if I were a buy here, pay your dealer in today's market, I would be. building my strategy about trying to trade my customers out into a new vehicle about every twenty four months. So that you factor that in. And now now how's the math look? So this is a part of and it's not new. Like I've been asking our dealers to do that, do their own math on that inside their own operation and see what makes sense for them. But, yeah, I just think it's an example of how. You know, dealer strategies vary, right? So it's part of why when we meet a dealer, when you say what we teach, we just try to lay out all the options and make sure the dealer understands advantages and disadvantages of each. And really, we're asking them strategy. Like, what are you looking to build here? Yeah, yeah. Vic piped in and said, I didn't realize selling paper could damage a relationship. Sorry, gosh, I got to move this thing to your customers. So, and... Well, there is no relationship. I mean, once the paper goes to the finance company, now the finance company is collecting it. And so they don't really want you interacting for the most part. They don't want you involved unless it's to support them. And I wouldn't have a motivation as a dealer to support them unless I'm still in recourse. It's kind of like if you're in the habit of all of the contracts you get is you're selling, then you're a pass-through to the people that are buying. It's like they're the finance company, really. And you're just... holding it for a very short amount of time and then, and then pipe it on over instead of being the finance company. Yeah. And backing up to folks that are new, look, all of this conversation has been around an industry, buy here, pay here, lease here, pay here. It's very capital intensive. Yes. We got to source the money from somewhere. We don't have millions of dollars. So there have been, there have been things where I've, I've heard you say, well, you know, if we, if, to get this because we have this hurdle we need to get over that there, this is an option to do this, to get you capitalized. But when you become, uh, it's one of the dealers that piped in, they said that when you get into the cycle, the merry-go-round of selling paper is it, it, um, Oh man, I just lost my thought. Yeah. Yeah. It was, yeah. It's around selling paper. So, uh, Traditionally, I have, when we do modeling, I've had dealers say, they'll ask me when we run through the modeling, if you had dealers sell paper, usually here's where it comes up. I'm running the math and they say, we think we're going to sell twenty cars a month and the cost of this and down payment of this. And we run the cash flow modeling and they see the numbers like, oh, one point two million. And they say, do you have some dealers that sell paper? Yeah, we do. You could build a hybrid thing where you sell some paper for a time and then move in to buy your paper. I remember what it was. It was like having a floor plan. It's, it's kind of keeps you in that, um, when you're selling and you're, you know, you're, you're creating contracts and selling, creating contracts and selling is that it kind of gets you in, in some of the same, the same, um, financial, uh, um, layer of like if you have a floor plan and so you're you're buying and then you're having to you're having to pay off something and so it just kind of keeps you in a loop because I think that that's that was the that was the point connection I think uh to what we're talking about with the buyer payer side I think um I I think I follow what they're suggesting but I I think the piece here there's there's these intangible pieces so let me give you an example I'm a dealer who's selling twenty cars buy here pay here a month I originate the note myself but if my strategy is to sell the paper to a third party at whatever period of seasoning then that means that my business strategy has to be informed by What the bulk buyer is looking for. So I have to check my business strategy to their business strategy, right? Whereas if I had an applicant come in that I like the deal, my bulk buyer won't buy it because what it's salvage title or it's, you know, whatever, not enough job time, whatever their criteria is. But I like it for me. You know, it makes sense for me. But if I don't have the capital to do it, I don't have the capital to do it. So it's like this is why we say all of these things that are being bounced around are absolutely true. But if I don't have the means to either one, fund it myself to qualify for a line of credit, which, by the way, when I sell paper, I'm probably postponing the day that I'm going to qualify for a line of credit because line of credit people that want to provide funding. financing, they want to see that you have a history of collecting the paper. Well, and it's interesting because I remember sitting down with Alan and we were just, we were looking at raw numbers and he, and he was saying, you're going to get the highest, you're going to get the highest offer on any paper that is, that is seasoned to this point. And, you know, most of your capital providers want to see you season your portfolio to about the same point. You know what? I don't think that's true. I've talked to other capital providers who I follow. But again, that's Alan telling you Alan's strategy. And so he's looking to buy paper here because he views it as less risk. I've had other capital buyers or providers tell me we'd like to acquire it earlier because the interest earnings, it's a simple interest deal. Yeah. So a lot of the interest earnings happen in the first twelve months. And so, you know, so some capital providers would rather get the paper early. Yeah. If it meets their criteria and they're comfortable, they would rather have it at ninety days or whatever the thing is. So so it varies. Strategy vary just like it doesn't buy here, pay here for dealers. It varies for capital providers. And, you know, I would just say the other thing to kind of keep in mind, we spent all of our time. I know. Yeah. I had a couple of things that were also bounced around on social media, but. I can say I'll come back to the post. We got data coming in from V.A. Today was the data due date for the February data. So once that number, those numbers come in, we've got enough data to be meaningful. I'll bring the February numbers back to Alan's post and put the actual markup numbers that we see for February inside that post. So that'll kind of give one another way to think about the thing. And again, there's an open invitation to Alan to come appear with us on the podcast because we love talking about this kind of thing. And I think dealers benefit from hearing all this stuff. Bob Blankenship, I just wanted to post your, the wrong finance company will cost you customers you have had for life. Ask me how I know. So, you know, obviously, and that, that is the thing too. When you look at, you know, there are some, you know, companies that buy and collect and you look at their customer ratings, They're awful. They're awful. And if you look at dealers that have been collecting themselves, the customer ratings are usually higher. So I could go in and pull some data to prove that. But that says an awful lot to me about the customer relationship. That if you're getting really poor reviews... Um, uh, and you're just do nothing but collections that that's, that's, let me, let me hit you with an intangible. Okay. I'm a dealer that financed a note and now I sell the note to you. You're the finance company. You own this thing in some cubicle in another state. Do you expect that customer to repeat with you? I mean, what is the scenario where that customer is buying from you again? You bought the contract in bulk. So I'm not thinking repeat. I'm just thinking I got to get these payments in the bank. Yeah. Right. And, and we do again, realize that, that, that is, it's something that a lot of dealers use as part of their business plan to, to, you know, and we've, we've had conversations around that as part of the business plan to get to the other side of something, but not, not, it's not something that we've really encouraged dealers to continue in for the life of their business. And I think, you know, I hope we haven't, um, I think anybody who listened to this conversation in totality should hear that we're not saying it's necessarily a bad thing to sell paper. It's just we want people to understand the cost, positives and negatives, and decide, am I playing a short-term game, long-term game? If I'm wanting to play a long-term game, can I afford to like, you got to run the math and see, can I afford to get from here to there? So, you know, Bob's one of the dealers who used to sell paper, you know, and now doesn't, I haven't seen the poll results. You look in on the poll. We just put a poll out this morning about what percentage, you know, how dealers sold paper. And the, the, the largest section was, uh, I never have sold paper. The next one was I used to sell paper, but I don't anymore. Right. And then there were almost no votes in the other category. Well, and it's, yeah. And when you add those two, it was predominantly people that were answering that where I don't, I never have, or I don't anymore. And so, you know, I don't, it would be interesting to find out if they used to for a business strategy. Um, uh, uh, Rudy, one last comment. Um, bankers are sharps. They have no incentive to protect your reputation. Um, They are just trying to buy the loans for less than they are worth so they can make the alpha. Yeah, they can make the money. So one more thought, and I'm going to share the poll results, and then I got one more thought about the thing about bulk buyers versus lines of credit. But let me read the poll that I put out this morning, just a couple hours ago. But it says, yesterday's interesting post by Alan Keat inspired a poll question. Have you ever sold any of your BHPH notes? And my options, my questions, or my answers rather were, nope not once next one was have in the past but now holding all of it option three yes it's part of my ongoing capital strategy and the fifth or fourth one yes but looking to keep more of it okay and the last one was there are folks out there who buy bhbh contracts like you know this is somebody who's new to the thing so the thirteen percent were in that yes it's part of my strategy All the rest of the answers were in the first two. Nope, I never have, or I have in the past, but I'm no longer doing it. So, eighty-seven percent were never been in my plan, or I don't do it anymore. Right, right. Yeah. So, again, you have to have capital to do that, or you choose a lower volume. Maybe you could sell thirty, but you're choosing to do twenty because you don't want to sell the extra paper, whatever. So, everybody's strategy can vary, but the thing I wanted to get back to quickly, and it's an appropriate place to kind of wrap up, think about... I used to tell people, you think about what you know, without saying names, how many people do you know in our industry that will provide a line of credit of a million dollars or more so it's a short list right there's not very many providers that we can refer to or two who's looking for uh you know um if they've been in business a couple of years and that kind of thing but I I used to be able to jokingly say I must have in my linkedin inbox and my messenger inbox I have people reaching out to hey jim if your clients ever want to sell paper like I there's some buyers out there looking to acquire paper. And I just think that's an indication of something you tell me. I just know that when I see a lot of people looking to me to, Hey, can you, you know, anybody that wants to sell the paper that just tells me it's a profitable gig for those finance companies that can acquire. It's kind of to Rudy's points. Like that's profitable for these banks who will acquire the paper. Is it going to be a good thing for the dealer? Sure. He's got, there's a lot of things to consider here, but. yeah and and you know for those that are out there that are in a cycle of selling paper and that's part of their business plan but don't want to do it anymore there are ways out and it's it just takes a lot more um discipline and just kind of like knows uh knows the grindstone Is that right? And, you know, working through it, but it is possible to be able to get yourself out of having to sell paper. And as like, this is like an integral part of my business strategy is selling paper. So there is a way out. Yep. I think we talked to the, we can save the rest for another day. There were some other threads, including one over on LinkedIn that I found intriguing, but we can save it. We can maybe save it for next Friday. So, um, uh, thanks so much though. I mean, we, yeah, we, we didn't think that we would be talking about this as much as, yeah, for the whole time. Just a lot of meat on that bone. It really is. It really, really is. Um, Friday we're still in busy tax season so thank you everyone for taking the time to listen and you know some of you will be listening on our syndicated podcast stations we really appreciate you you know having us as part of your day and part of your education too so hope you guys have a great great weekend we're looking forward to the snow will be melting and we'll be working in the yard before too long so really really grateful for it again thanks so much for joining us and we will see you on wednesday I gotta find my there we are right there you're right there we're gonna add that to the stage make that the thing see you guys later thanks so much
