Wake up, Buy Here, Pay Here people. It's a beautiful day. Go grab yourself another cup of Joe and say hello to Jim and Michelle Rhodes on the Buy Here, Pay Here morning show. Take it away, you two. Hey, good morning, everyone. It is Wednesday. It's March third. Teeth. I can check. It's the twelfth. Welcome. We had a little bumpy start here. We're really fighting. We've got a soundboard issue. It's really been a problem. I have to believe that all the racket that we hear in our ears, you folks are having to listen to out there on the kickoff of the broadcast. Apologies. We'll get to the bottom of that and get that solved. It's been a thing. yeah yes shall we get into our topic we run a little late today yeah we are I well you know before I before we get into our topic it looks like preface that Jim and I have been having a lot of fun with AI chat GPT grok deep seek all of those things and And we have a few things that are brewing in our companies that are around that. And for some people, it's interesting because there are people that it's like, well, that's old news. And then there are people that it's like, what are you talking about? I was telling Jim, I had dinner with some of my really great girlfriends, the ones that I travel with, with a couple of them last night. And I brought up ChatGPT and Grok and DeepSeek. And one of them knew what ChatGPT was and had been in the process of using it themselves. Neither one of them knew what Grok or DeepSeek were. And and I was like, you know, we so we kind of had this really interesting conversation. So it's like I don't feel as behind the ball as I as I kind of did before, because I know there's people out there that are really leaning in. We have one of our one of our team members that it's like any question that comes up, she doesn't know the answer for. She immediately goes to. um ai and asks the question gets the answer the instructions all of that so this is them we're using it too yeah and of course you know your girlfriends you're talking about are um ten years your your junior oh yeah they're both millennials yeah so yeah yeah so they're you know it's interesting that that kind of makes me feel good it's like I'm a gen xer and you know it's like oh I know something that I you know it's I'm not big on those labels but I think um yeah yeah sorry but you're a boomer you're at the very end of the boomers too so it's like boomer yeah it's like it doesn't matter it really doesn't matter right yeah that's if you want age to mean something it doesn't yeah how you're raised to me because this this ai thing is a new world and I think the thing that I would use as a preface to what we're going to talk about here is you know I went to deep seek I've been using deep seek lately one I wanted to test out the the free everybody says you know that that free version is um is really great and then it's also said that it really sources the same information like it's going to go to the same chat gpt and probably even sources and grok I mean yeah could be I don't know but I just know that what you've really got in in my way of viewing ai so far is it's almost limitless. We're finding it's got some bumpers, but it's nearly limitless. And I think what I would challenge dealers or listeners to think about as they hear what we're going to present here today is that this is a machine. It has no emotion. It has no motivation. It has nothing to gain financially in anything that it's going to present here. And I'll also preface that when I... went to the the prompting and I wrote the language that I was asking the question I didn't get specific about buy here payer so first thing the question is really you know um let me let me just get it on the screen let's just get into it shall we yeah well I and and I yeah um we Sometimes you can program in your chat GPT to filter it through certain things. But for the most part, when when you are working with a new a new stream of conversation, that it's it's like, again, with the no emotions is one thing, but there's no filter either. There's no context, right? It has no pretext or context for this. It's simply in DeepSeek, I maybe had asked five or six questions on other threads, but I created a new thread here. It knows very little about me. So let me just read it in a way that I phrased the question. this is like so interesting and I don't know when you finished at this you're like you have got to see this and threw it in a document in our Drive and and he's like have you have you looked have you looked and so yeah pretty cool so let's just let's just read it and then we can discuss it as we go and we may run a little long here today but The prompt that I typed in was, considering the issue of financial illiteracy in the United States and the percentage of customers who require special or subprime auto financing, please draft a blog post about ten tips for poor credit consumers to know to improve their experience when shopping for auto financing. So I didn't say anything specific to buy here, pay here, there. Uh-huh. And so you added that parentheses after the fact. Yes. That not by her payer specific. Correct. This is just about... That's right. Yeah. But they're seen on the screen. That's right. Yes. So I highlighted kind of some things in blue here. As we go through, you'll see the areas that I marked as kind of most relevant or most interesting to me. But let me read the question again for those who are just, you know, not seeing the screen. It says ten tips or blog post. Yeah. About ten tips for poor credit consumers to know to improve their experience when shopping for auto financing. yes all it says is I'm shopping for a car and I have poor credit right give me yeah give me a blog post about how to navigate that and it's so fascinating to watch it I typed that in and within seconds it is populating all of these answers like it sweeps all the internet all the content is out there across the planet yeah and it feeds back this information so So it reads this back to me, basically reads back the title. And it says, navigating the world of auto financing can be challenging. I guess I better get over to the document itself. Let's make sure when I move this document that it follows you on the screen. Have you seen that? Okay. So what it says is, It's kind of a preface. It says, navigating the world of auto financing can be challenging, especially if you have poor credit. In the United States, financial illiteracy and limited access to traditional financing options often leave subprime borrowers feeling overwhelmed and taken advantage of. However, with the right knowledge and preparation, you can improve your experience and secure a deal that works for you. Here are ten tips to help uh poor credit consumers shop for auto financing with confidence yeah so keep in mind this is a blog post written to consumers right it's really kind of directed and you know I don't know if it would have made any difference had you said sub subprime but I mean you just like like subprime yeah it's because that that segment currently is growing I don't think I use the word subprime You did up in the beginning, subprime. Yeah, subprime auto financing. Oh, yeah, subprime. Right, subprime auto financing. So this is not subprime, which buy here, pay here is deep subprime. And I didn't want to preface that. So when you hear these answers, then I would just ask you to think about it. All it's knowing is I'm a poor credit consumer shopping for a car, and everything that it knows from all of the Internet Every bit of content that's out there. This is what I'm enjoying about it. And then the other thing I would ask you to think about as we go through these answers is the phrasing. Because unlike you and me, AI, whatever version we use, AI has got access to information. boundless materials, and it can then articulate. It can be very purposeful in choosing its words. It's more articulate than you and I because it has a wealth of knowledge and has the ability to choose language that is most descriptive. So the first one, you want to read this one? Well, I'm glad I'm wearing my glasses today. Know your credit score and report. Now, I understand that for a lot of buy here, pay your dealers. I'm just going to preface this that the credit report, but like the score, the report is something that consumers should know about. And it is important to a lot of buy here, pay your dealers, not the score, but the report. It says before stepping into a dealership or applying for financing, check your credit score and review the credit report. Understanding where you sit financially will help you set realistic expectations and identify any errors that could be dragging your score down. you're entitled to a free credit report annually from the three major bureaus, Equifax, Experience, TransUnion, and it gives the link. So, you know, and we know that for many of our consumers, this first tip is just like something that really doesn't, matter as much. So that's number one. Yeah, just pause until our dealer listeners get busy. Phone rings, you get pulled into something else. Please come back and hear what number six is. Oh, my gosh. OK, so number two, you want me to read this one? Yeah. Set a realistic budget. Poor credit often means higher interest rates, which can significantly increase the cost or the total cost of your loan. Determine how much you can afford to spend each month on a car payment, factoring in insurance, maintenance, and fuel costs. A good rule of thumb is to keep your transportation expenses below fifteen to twenty percent of your monthly income. And that includes what it's for a standard It's setting fifteen to twenty percent, including your payment, insurance, maintenance, and fuel costs. One of the things that will happen here, we'll make this an ongoing thread. I'll go back and ask for clarification on some of these points so that we can bring that back. And I actually want to write a, I don't know if you want to get into this right now. Do you have a pen or something? So, uh, is this whole idea of, yeah, well we do, cause we were talking about that this morning is like, what does a typical P it's cause it's PTI. Right. And that that's typically like. Twenty percent is low for a lot percent is where dealers want to be. Twenty-five percent would be high. And but that's not including insurance, fuel and maintenance. Just the payment. Yeah. And so it's like this this right here where, you know, are we are we setting a realistic budget, you know, based on all the information that AI has? It's like when we when we layer hours over We are not. And that what I, as I was thinking about that this morning, I was like, so we are trapping our consumers in a hamster wheel of not being successful in their financial, their financial world. Maybe. I don't want to go too, I prefer today to not go too deep into the actual individual elements because we've got quite a bit of ground cover here. But I would say that we, I think what I'd like to focus on is the parts of this that ask, think about AI has the ability to sweep all the stuff. So that last sentence, when it says a good rule of thumb is, it's based on what? It's based on all this stuff. So, yeah. So, I mean, like when I would look at this and I'd say, you know, do we, because when you're, because this is, AI is looking at like, how can people be successful? And so it's, that's kind of one of the filters. It's like, if you're this person and you're looking to get a car. Successful experience. it's a successful experience and so you know this that this pti thing is like so how I mean how do we navigate that because it's saying it's harder for a consumer to be successful outside of these parameters is what I'm reading I hear that. And I think, remember, this is basically the AI is speaking to the consumer and saying, if you want to have a good experience, do at least ten things. Okay, so that was number two. You got number three? Number three, save for a larger down payment. And I'm going to perk up a lot of dealers because this is something, yeah, it's down payment. I remember a thing that we saw from Jack Carter he's like hey you can you can pay for me to be able to do this or you can come with a larger down payment so that I don't make as much money off of you so number three save for a larger down payment a larger down payment can offset the lenders us often offset the risk lenders associate with poor credit potentially lowering your interest rate and monthly payments aim to save at least ten to twenty percent of the car's purchase price now see that's an interesting thing um right there because yeah that ten to twenty percent This also reduces the amount you will need to finance, making you a more attractive buyer. I mean, that's gold right there. And then so, you know, this whole ten to twenty percent, how much are we asking for a down payment? And what they're saying is a large down payment is twenty percent. Yeah, it will. It's saying aim for the, at least that much. So obviously more would be better. And so the way I always, I'd said this to so many customers and trained it so many times over the years that I'm, I'm just kind of used to the thing of saying to a customer, you're going to help yourself. If you can do some payment, you're going to reach your chance of approval. You're going to save some interest. You could potentially lower your payments. So I just gave you three quick reasons that the customer can help themselves. So ten to twenty percent is a minimum. Like, yeah, I want to do more if you can. And so let's go on the next one. Shop around for financing. Don't settle for the first offer you receive. Compare rates from multiple lenders, including credit unions, online lenders and dealerships. Credit unions in particular often offer more favorable terms for subprime borrowers. Pre-approval from a lender can also give you leverage when negotiating with the dealership. So again, not by your payer. Yeah, not necessarily. So number five, you already revealed. Yeah. Number five, understand the total cost of the loan. now you know this is this is something again you preface people that don't have a lot of financial literacy so it's some educational pieces um so focus not just on the monthly payment but on the total cost of the loan including interest and fees the longer loan term may lower your monthly payment but but result in paying significantly more in interest over time use online loan calculators to compare different scenarios Yeah, I think as a former dealer and somebody who works with a lot of dealers, as I hear that, I'm thinking, you know, the other thing that a consumer would want to be careful about, and look, even before I was in the buy here payer space, in the used car space, you know, there are payment buyers, you know, most buyers buy based on a payment. Yeah. And they're not so much interested, they're not so wrapped up. And it's more true in the buy here payer space, that they're not so wrapped up in the interest rate or the length of the loan. They just need to know how much down payment do I need and what will my payment be? Well, the other thing here, total cost of loan, is like you got to really think about, and I didn't address this here, and it's okay. It's just the actual depreciation on the car relative. You're buying a car with some miles typically, and so now the depreciation of the car relative to the length of the term is something we all got to be watchful about. Okay, number six. You read number six? Well, I can if you want me to. Go ahead. all right and this is the highlighted um avoid buy here pay her dealerships if possible while buy here pay her dealerships cater to poor credit consumers they often charge exorbitant interest rates and sell overpriced vehicles if you must use one thoroughly research the dealership's reputation and read the contract carefully to avoid predatory terms yeah I missed some highlighting in there because again the this case deep seek has access to all the language across the entire planet it has the entire dictionary and the words that it shows were exorbitant interest rates overpriced vehicles and the dealer's reputation right so so I just think we we we all can learn from this when we recognize that this is how the how a machine sees and and that they use predatory terms um in in alone as are their predatory terms there's there's so much right there so much meat on the bone um about like why we're doing white hat way why we're you know it's like this this is really our why because we know as it says in here um while they do cater to these, they often do this. And so it's like, you may it says if possible to avoid them, and we know that a lot of our consumers don't have an option. yeah or they don't know how to or yeah um access those options yeah yeah so it's it's like if possible avoid but if you're gonna know that these are the pitfalls these are the things that you should be watching for yeah so I think you know it's interesting that chat gpt would spit out number six don't go to buy a dealership yeah number seven bring a cosigner if you can a cosigner with good credit can improve your chances of securing a loan with better terms however this is a significant responsibility for the cosigner as they'll be on the hook yeah make sure both parties understand the risks involved and you know I didn't ask in this case to to give it information about the audience like who to address it to often you can oh yeah like as though it were a twelfth grade audience or whatever but I didn't in this case but I think it's interesting the language that it's choosing is kind of colloquial or or slang like and so I think it's interesting but yeah bring a cosigner if you can and it's interesting too to for me to think about how Dealers vary in their view of co-signing. So number eight, read the fine print. Before signing any agreement, read the contract thoroughly. Look for hidden fees, prepayment penalties, or clauses that could negatively impact you. If something isn't clear, ask for clarification or consult a financial advisor. This is where predatory practices a lot of times happen because, you know, and we've had the conversation over and over and over again about there's a lot thrown at people and people that are savvy may want to look at things a little bit more. And, you know, I can only imagine that a salesperson, if someone is sitting in front of them, they're like, I want to read this, that they're irritated about that. Sure. So, and I do, you know, there are softwares out there that actually help with this, where you are having a conversation with an AI bot or whatever, and it's like they're taking you line by line. through a contract to help explain it. So you know, I appreciate that there are there are tools out there that can allow this to be mitigated, where it's like we really, really, which is, you know, that's a CBF. It's about predatory practices. Are you really explaining what it is that they are getting into? Along this thing with the fine print as well, we talk an awful lot, and I'm sorry, I'm not really squirreling. It's related. is that because there's so much that's thrown at them that is important to the success of their contract that it's really a great idea to communicate those points to them after the sale through a text message through an email through you know a welcome call or or whatever so that they are really aware of um of like you know this is what this means and if you have this happen this is what you know what what the course of action or, you know, how we can help you or whatever. I think reading the fine print is obviously common advice. It's good advice. I understand that because the day the customer's buying, especially with financing, it's kind of that fire hose situation we talked about. There's a lot coming out of it. So it's not surprising to me that they might read the fine print, but it's still a lot to remember and make sense of. well and here's the other part it's like this conversation I had with my girlfriends last night we were talking about contracts and how it's because one of them is going through uh um her mother passed away and so they're going through all of these um all of these things around her assets and all of that and that that she's like there is so much lawyer speak in contracts that it's like can't they just dumb this down and they use like you know fifty dollar words or phrases that that requires someone to to um interpret practically so you know there's and this is something that we've been talking about recently about you know uh disclaimers and and that kind of thing it's like can't we make these things fun and And, and, and, you know, like, you're getting the point across, but you're, you're, you're doing, I bet you that deep seek or AI could look at a contract and say, Can you simplify this, so that someone with a fifth grade education kind of gets all the parts. and I bet you could do that like in a heartbeat and yeah it's just you got to be careful because there's legal stuff here we don't want to water it down yeah misunderstanding that's why all the legal languages don't take away any of the legal part but just make it easier for someone to understand Listen, I forgot to say when we read the one about avoid buy here, pay your dealerships, I do stay with us because I asked a follow-up question. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's a good one. It really is. I think we'll try to help Senator White with that answer. So number nine, focusing on improving your credit over time. While this won't help immediately, improving your credit score can save you money in the long run. Make timely payments on your auto loan and other debts, keep your credit utilization low, and avoid taking on new debt. Over time, these steps can help you qualify for better rates on future loans. which is you know white hat way layering this in this is what um a dealer that really wants their consumer to be successful this is like kind of part of it I mean it can be yeah um so I over my career I've I've seen a lot of dealers met a lot of customers myself I think not every customer out there is going to be looking to improve their credit circumstances. Certainly, I would be encouraging dealers to make that path available to your customers. I just know that some may not necessarily jump on that path. True. They're going to accept their lot in life and they're not unhappy where they are. Do you think if they, like through this connecting with your consumer, if there is fun education dropped, to them about you know this is what this can do for you and and have you considered like doing an doing x well this is you know by doing this and this you can accomplish this x thing right and just yeah make a path available to them that's all I'm saying whether yeah created or you put you link them to some place where they can get the education I'm just saying if a customer really wants to improve their credit circumstances because fundamentally what you're talking about here and without going to the whole AI aspect of this fundamentally when you zoom out on the industry and you look at there are some dealers who and maybe I'll save that because there's some language coming up in the in the response to the follow-up question that we can kind of expand on that let's let's okay it's the last one you want to go ahead Don't rush the process. Shopping for auto financing with poor credit requires patience. Rushing into a deal can lead to unfavorable terms or a vehicle that doesn't meet your needs. Take your time to research, compare offers, and make an informed decision. Yeah, that's good advice. Okay, so let's final thoughts. Having poor credit doesn't mean you're out of options when it comes to auto financing. By arming yourself with knowledge, setting a budget, and shopping strategically, you can secure a loan that fits your financial situation. Remember, the goal isn't just to get a car. It's to build a foundation for better financial health in the future. If you're struggling with financial literacy, consider seeking resources with nonprofit organizations or financial advisors who specialize in helping subprime borrowers. with the right approach, you can turn a challenging situation into an opportunity for growth and stability. So let me stop and say I find this fascinating because all I did was ask it to write a blog post and because it knew it was drafting it as a blog post, it tried to finish it. Yes. You know, wrap it up with some solutions. But the thing that I'm especially intrigued about with AI and this is where I'm going to continue to test the boundaries on this in my own, you know, learning to write prompts. is I'm going to test the boundaries about this stuff where you can see that it's got, without any real direction for me, it chose to sort of have an uplifting sort of there's a way out of that situation, right? And I didn't tell it to do that. It chose to provide that sort of way forward. Yeah. Based on what? Like what kind of... guiding principles is is is coded into but I mean are there guided principles guiding principles or is this just like this is what we perceive this is what I perceive or we it um perceives as uh no emotion no no um uh um filters of like my experience shows so I'm a little bit jaded or you know none of that and it's just this is what this is yeah keep in mind my only language was really how do I improve the experience so this is how it's basically saying improved experience so so what's the flip so let's let's go to the follow-up question so let me read that okay you can read the answers uh can you give five more examples of how buy here pay here dealerships use predatory practices So this is just like, give me an example about why you put something in there that was like, don't go there unless you don't have any options. So the result is, well, let's say absolutely. Buy here, pay here dealerships can be a lifeline for consumers with poor credit, but they are also notorious for employing predatory practices that can trap borrowers into cycles of debt. Here are five common tactics to watch out for. So, I mean, that's like, this is like why we have the CFPB down our backs. This is not Jim and Michelle. This is why. And it's not unfair. It's just, it's a machine. It has no emotion, no motivation here. It's just, I asked the question, what, let me read it again. Can you give five more examples of how buyer-payer dealerships use predatory practices? Okay, go ahead. One, exorbitant interest rates. Buyer-payer dealerships often charge significantly higher interest rates than traditional lenders, sometimes as high as twenty to thirty percent or more. These inflated rates can double or even triple the total cost of the vehicle over the life of the loan, making it much harder for borrowers to pay off their debt. Right. I'll just stop to say, there's nothing here that's edited. All I did was remove, at the end of the blog post, I had a little thing that was trying to invite a conversation. That's what a blog post would often do. Before we go on to the next one, Adrian, our friend from down in Southern Utah. Hey, Adrian. Hey, Adrian. This is number ten on this, which was about slow down. He says, it's very important and also a way to teach your salespeople to respect their guests' time and build a trusting relationship. No need to rush a sale if the guest is not ready. So thank you, Adrian. Appreciate that. Okay, so result. Number two. Oh, you want to read number two? Yeah. Overpriced vehicles. Many buyer-payer dealerships sell older, high-mileage vehicles at prices far above market value. They may also fail to disclose the vehicle's full history, including accidents or mechanical issues, leaving buyers with a car that's worth far less than what they're paying. That is just, that's a what is in our industry. Yeah. it's just a what is I didn't feed it any of this yeah it came up with this on its own it shows the word overpriced priced above market value older high mile vehicles it's just a what is I mean yeah yeah um what what I find though in here that we can learn from because I mean the what is is that we're going to have overpriced vehicles because of how we mitigate risk right let's talk about that um but it says in here to disclosure is a big thing in here. It's like, you may have an overpriced vehicle, but it just wraps in disclosure around the vehicle. Now, I love, I mean, Carfax, things like that, you know, that it can help disclose an awful lot. And I, you know, we need to have Jack on this show again. because Jack Carter one of our dealer friends from the East Coast he does the most hilarious walk arounds a vehicle I mean it's just and he is pointing out every last little ding problem whatever on a vehicle and he's you know he's like maybe they backed into a trash can on their way because they were late for you know you know and he kind of just makes it fun but he's just disclosing all of the things and he's like you know hey that there's and and even in his whole uh where he he posted something about why you should make a higher down payment kind of thing it's like he's just being really transparent about the thing so disclosure is about transparency as well, which is super, super important. We have a lot of dealers that we work with that do rebuilds, title loans, or not title loans, but yeah, that they're, yeah, it's a rebuild. And being really transparent about that. Since you brought it up, I would say there's one thing to say it verbally in a presentation and say, look at this dent or whatever. But as we talked about in our certification course last month and it comes up, you know, it's when there's a dispute between what was said verbally and what's in the contract. In court, you're going to go to what's on the contract, what's on the paper. So all that verbal stuff is good. I think what this is really saying is full disclosure, like in writing, put it like this is what we know. And obviously you disclose what you know, there's stuff you may not know, right? But I just say, I think it's about transparency and just disclosing fully, which kind of goes back to the thing about don't rush. Can I, I'm not a squirrel. Why do you always have to explain? I know, I know. But you're prepared, you know, you know, we've talked about like lawyer speak and all of that in a contract. I mean, there's I just like come out and say, this is a used car with high miles, and it will break down. And when that happens, ultimately, you are responsible for the vehicle and and like being very, very transparent in, you know, in some some salespeople, Adrian, you're probably one of them that will like explain this because there's lawyer talk somewhere in the contract. But it's like this is that's like one of the important things to really, you know, oh, and there's a whole nother stream of conversation we were talking about earlier around this kind of thing too but yes I know but um yeah that it that adding something to a contract that's like understand this is a used vehicle with high miles and cars break down even the newest cars break down this is a higher probability of breaking down at some point And so this responsibility is for you. And actually, one of the things that we talk about is further in in this five things. Yeah. read it oh yeah rigorous or rigorous rigorous rigorous thank you good gravy let me read this one yes please so rigorous payment schedules some bhph dealerships require weekly or bi-weekly payments instead of standard monthly payments This can create a financial burden for borrowers who may struggle to meet such frequent deadlines. Missing a payment can result in repossession even if you've already paid a significant portion of the loan. So I think it's interesting, again, the language is purposeful. It chose the word rigorous. it says monthly payments are standard so it's it's basically saying that weekly and bi-weekly thing is is rigorous and demanding I think we all understand we know why but what we're saying is AI doesn't understand and it doesn't draw the same conclusion apparently so I don't know what there is around that. Yeah. And, and, you know, that's kind of one of those things. It's like, it is, it is the interest rates, the overpriced vehicles, the rigorous payments. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So number three, GPS tracking and starter interrupt devices. that's actually number four but oh wait no you said rigorous payments that was yeah I did number three oh yeah so it's number four sorry yes I'm on number four I just need to be able to read um so gps tracking and starter interrupt devices Many buy here, pay here dealerships install GPS trackers or starter interrupter devices in a vehicle they sell. While they claim these are for security, they often use to remotely disable the car or repossess it if payments are missed or a payment is missed, sometimes without warning. This leaves borrowers stranded and without transportation, even if they're only on only a day late on a payment. right true it's true it's like it's um it's it's only gps does its job of knowing where the car is and maybe disabling the starter but then it's just a question of the policies and practices of the dealer who's behind you know that yeah it's this is another like ah you know yeah um number five no credit reporting ironically Again, word choice. Ironically, some BHPH dealerships don't report your payments to credit bureaus. This means that even if you make all your payments on time, your credit score won't improve and you won't build a positive credit history. This keeps borrowers trapped in the subprime lending cycle unable to qualify for better financing options in the future which is just really interesting I mean and and that's something that people they can choose one way or another what they want to do there's a lot of there's a lot of different sides of like why we do why we don't you know we've I even saw a thing recently um about what people pay a month to report to credit and it's you know it's under uh like under two hundred dollars minimum qualifiers and then I saw that ken yang actually yeah yeah yeah and yeah on some of that so there's there's minimums to do that but for you know that's just something for uh consumers you know at least ai here saying hey as a consumer you might want to oh yeah yeah yeah factor that in so bonus one go ahead um bonus so you're letting me read it yeah yeah um because I can read uh hidden fees and add-ons buy your pair dealerships and this is interesting is it like we asked for five and it's like there's an extra one there's something else and you know I'm surprised it didn't go bonus bonus and then bonus bonus bonus like pssp you know um hidden fees and add-ons Buy here, pay here dealerships may tack on unnecessary fees or pressure you into purchasing add-ons like extended warranties, gap insurance, or service plans. These extras can inflate the total cost of the loan often without providing real value to the buyer. that one I have a little bit of it's like I don't I don't agree with that it's a follow-up question yeah I'll ask yeah because um you know it's as long as you're being super transparent about your service plan around the car's break and do you have a you know whatever so Yeah. Yeah. It's extended warranties is interesting. Like, that's not even really a word. The fact that AI doesn't know, it's almost like it's not quite clear on the language between a service contract and a warranty. And so. So before we go on to this last last part about, you know, what it says to like, here's the bright side or what you can do. This is the playback of the CFPB. I mean, these are the main points that there's like this friction around. So I'm wondering how much of this was pulled off of legislation and the cars, all of this stuff. So this is like, these are the whys. These are the whys. And so, you know, why this industry is considered predatory. This is the why. I think that's important to think about. Like this sweep, I didn't give it any guardrails. I just opened it up so it's sweeping all of the content out there. Everything you can think of that's on this subject so that it can access. It can't access probably a private Facebook group. You know, it can't. penetrate firewalls, but it can, everything that's out there in the public domain, which is a ton of information on this. So I think that's the important thing that AI is doing. And it's doing it without emotion. I think that's a real big part that I want to continue to drive home is it doesn't, it doesn't have all the same emotion wrapped up in it. It's not invested in a dealership. It doesn't have, you know, it doesn't have anything to sell here. Right. Okay. So how to protect yourself. You want to read that? Oh, sure. If you're considering a buyer-payer dealership, take these steps to protect yourself. I love this. It's like this has got White Hat Way written all over it. Research the dealership's reputation. Look for reviews and complaints online. The second one is get the car inspected. Have an independent mechanic check the vehicle before you buy. This is something Jim and I teach all the time. Let's try to find the podcast and show it. Yeah, exactly. Read the contract carefully and make sure you understand all terms, fees, and penalties. And then the next one is explore alternatives. Consider credit unions, online lenders, and saving up for a larger down payment to qualify for better financing. Yeah. So, you know, there's so much there and I think we can, this'll be an ongoing conversation again. I will go back and send notes. If you watch the podcast, watch it on YouTube, you can put notes in YouTube. Just, just put some comments in there. Let me know what kind of followup questions you'd like. I'm going to go in there and ask followup questions about why would you say that there's no value, you know, why, why no added value for things like a service contract? Yeah. Because it does provide the consumer some protection. Some of those products are really more for the dealer's protection. And so obviously the customer's paying for that and financing that. So it's just a really question of, you know, so again, when we back up and kind of look at broad lens, it's like, what are we choosing to share? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And there is, you know, it's interesting, too. And it's kind of like validating for some of the things that we teach. um and and as we've looked at different pieces of this like you know gps or whatever is how do you how do you create a way of of like being very transparent and in a way possibly reward them around a GPS. Yeah, it's about that yesterday, we can move forward on some initiatives. And so I can tell you that we're, we're hard at work, Michelle, and I are absolutely working with our team and working with some outsource people. And we are building solutions that will address many of the things that were brought up here, but I think without taking away the what is for a dealer, it's like there's ways of, of making that what is not predatory. right yeah so I think what what the way we think about it is Dealers on an individual level would struggle to solve all these problems in their own operations. So one of the things that we expect White Hat Way to be able to do for dealers going forward and ultimately through the dealers to the consumer is to be able to address many of the things that were brought up here. Okay, so this is part of what we, the work that continues with White Hat Way and here we are on a White Hat Wednesday talking about these things. And I think it's just, this was a moment to pause and say, how is this industry viewed? And obviously as you look at that, it gives you insight and all those things are opportunities. They're opportunities for us to begin to win more customers by operating with principle in a predatory segment. Exactly. If AI thinks it's a predatory segment, I'm sorry, it's a predatory segment. That doesn't mean all the dealers across the industry don't misunderstand. I'm just saying our segment is viewed even by the machines as predatory. And so there's an opportunity for us as dealers to step forward and demonstrate how we're different. and better and that way you'll begin to separate yourself which is why white hat way was created and you know we talk frequently about straight lines squiggly lines straight lines are all the operational things we have to have a higher interest rate to cover our costs to mitigate risk we have to you know in order to be able to afford to do this we have to buy cars with higher mileage and yada yada and all of the what is those are straight line things and then what what we teach is a squiggly line which can stand side by side and intersect and all it's like okay so your interest rate how do you want to be known by your consumer and it's not about a popularity contest it's about do you want to be seen as like one of these predatory businesses that's out there And so it's like, if you have to have a high interest rate, then how are you communicating and educating your consumer around that? Or, you know, are you, there's, there's just, there's a lot of, there's a lot of pieces in there that are not shown on a term sheet or a, uh, You know, when you get into the DMS and it's all the straight line, keeping track of all of the things. It's not something that you're going to be able to... Well, we're actually working on how do you quantify that in dollars and cents. So that's coming. But the squiggly line stuff, the white hat way is... Are we are we able to quantify that in a way that it's like this is not just that it's starting to really intersect with the straight line things where it's like it is making a difference. It is moving the needle. It is having these kind of practices is changing the experience of both the consumer and the dealer. And let's let's wrap up with this. I mean, I think there's nothing that we've talked about here, that to me is meant to say that dealers, if I'm working with a dealer who I would, you know, maybe they're white hat certified dealer, we now have a few white hat certified dealers out there. So when I'm working with them, my my my overarching intention is to help them to be successful long term because they can't serve folks in their community and build a business that's going to be around and sustainable for a very long time without being profitable. They've got to be profitable. So there's, There's profitability. There's positive cash flow. There's nothing that we talked about here that doesn't mean that dealers should quit charging high interest. Well, the dealerships are not a non-profit. They are a for-profit. I think the thing that White Hat Way has a chance to do, and we'll be able to prove it out mathematically in the coming years, is... We'll find out. Is it possible for a dealer to charge less and still be highly profitable? There's some data coming in already that suggests that that's true. It's possible. I'm just saying that it's one among the things that we're not just going to sit up here and say, hey, you really should do it because it feels good. We also think you're going to enjoy it because it's going to feel good. You're going to have more profit, more cash flow, and you're going to be around a lot longer. Yeah, but I mean, the feeling good feels good. Karen piped in, this reminds me of some of the conversations I have with buyer-payer dealers, dealer owners who do not want to advertise that they are buy here, pay here, or want to use the words buy here, pay here because... of of that stigma that connotation of like oh buy here pay here steer clear of that yeah yeah so I get it I think what we proved here today through this just so open use all the language that I use I think what we proved here is it's when you say stigma it's it's real like if a machine spits out that information based on everything it could sweep then I think that stigma is It's not made up. It's a real thing. And AI in this case is encouraging consumers to stay away from buy here, pay here dealerships. So it's like we've got some work to do. And so it's part of the work that Michelle and I enjoy doing all the time. Yeah, and it's actually, for us, it's like, this is great because it's like, you know, it's articulated in a way where it's like, how do we check? You know, how do we check? It's like, okay, so how do we mitigate this? How do we mitigate this? How do we mitigate this? And, you know, again, in the buyer payer industry, there's a lot of just like, this is a what is, we're gonna charge a higher interest rate, we're gonna ask for payday payments, we're gonna ask, because historically, we've seen that it just it's like, that's how we mitigate our risk. But how do we do it in a way that is helping our consumers be successful? Helping our customers experience an elevation in their experience instead of staying on a hamster wheel or whatever. It's my belief that helping consumers have a good experience helps dealers have a good experience. And the whole team, it's like... it all ties together so yeah we should all right we do there's a lot of irons in the fire right now a lot of things a lot of opportunities that really can yeah yeah um so hey everybody um thank you for so much for joining us today we uh you know we know you're busy it's tax time hopefully everyone is just like This is our Black Friday for the industry. Don't forget to mention Steve will be with us on Friday. Oh, yeah. Steve will be with us on Friday. So tune in so you can see his new book has been released, Camera Punch and How to Help Car Dealers Take Compliance. And he's a pretty good, pretty big voice for being an attorney in the space around the cars rule and all of those things. And, you know, just... The things that the government's looking at for buy here, pay here is not going away. They're still like, how do we protect people? So come see Steve on Friday. Come see Steve on Friday. All right, everybody. Have a great day. Thanks again so much for joining.
