Wake up, Buy Here, Pay Here people. It's a beautiful day. Go grab yourself another cup of joe and say hello to Jim and Michelle Rhodes on the Buy Here, Pay Here Morning Show. Take it away, you two. Good morning, everyone. Oh my goodness. Yeah, Jim jumped up when we were starting this and And I was like, where the heck are you going? And had to shut the door. Yeah. I knew I had four point seven seconds. Exactly. Four point seven seconds. So here we are. Welcome. Happy Wednesday. Welcome to the studio. utah yeah just so beautiful watching the robins listening to the I mean the birds woke me up this morning right um and it was like still six thirty in the morning and I could hear them just outside just awesome yep I love this time of the year so a couple quick updates I saw that uh brent carmichael is uh back in the swing of things so we'll find the time to have brent return to the podcast we want to have a conversation with him leading into to the convention, of course. And then we have something, we have a guest coming in on Friday. Friday, Mr. Alan Keat will be with us and I'm looking forward to that. We're going to talk about the outlook for inventory. We've pulled together quite a few resources on that. So this will kind of be in the thread of the BHPH MarketWatch podcast that we're bringing forward. Alan and I have already recorded a session on that. We are going to be bringing in experts, but this conversation is just kind of a, kind of a preliminary look at inventory and we're harnessing AI to pull together an incredible amount of information. And it's surprising to me how much it knows about our segment. I agree. Because we talk about our segment being fragmented and And, you know, obviously it's only sourcing articles and whatever else it can find in terms of industry publications and that sort of thing. We were asking yesterday some, some questions and it was like, and we asked at the end of this answer, can you cite your sources? And I mean, it's going down the list of things that, um, that it's like, these are industry sources and federal sources and. And it's pretty darn impressive. And, you know, we love just the more and more we play in the world of AI, the more we understand that we're just scratching the surface of what this can do for individuals and business owners and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. So it's really kind of amping up, you know, what kind of knowledge we can bring to you because it obviously expands on our knowledge dramatically. And so it's a, It's great. So I think let's dive into our topic for today, unless you have any other announcements. I don't, I don't. And when Jim's like, can we do something on the F word? And I'm like, no, no. And so, so yeah. And he's like, not that F word. It's the word failure. And that is such a triggering word. And I, and I, I, I kind of like, it's weird. Yeah, that humans overall need to let go of all of the ego hits around failure. Yeah. Because you asked the most successful business people on the planet, the most successful people, the ones that it's like, these are icons and find out how many times they failed. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, you're right. People people have a hard time accepting that. That's our human ego at work. And it may be amplified in the United States of America where we're very capitalist, you know, an enterprising country. And so we probably have more identity around our entrepreneurship and, you know, capitalized growth and, you know, all those kind of things. So it stands to reason that we would have more wrapped up in that. And the conversation came around for me today because I said, and listen, we're not alarmist. We just kind of watch what's going on. And if we back out to a broader view, maybe it helps for our listeners to think about what it is that our viewpoint on the industry would be like, what is our vantage point? Well, we meet dealers regularly on client meetings right we obviously are inside social media tracks that are active with dealers that are you know specifically in our segment we have our VA dealer groups where we meet dealers and we hear about what they're struggling with and kind of what their latest conversations have been with whether it's partners or investors or lenders or you know all these different parties and they're kind of on the periphery of their business and we're just I've seen I mean I'll just say it I've seen them last year more failures, recalibrations, like kind of restructuring kind of stuff. Resets is a good word. Like we've seen some resets and we've seen some people fail. Some of those are not people we know. We just know from the industry, we read the news and we see finance companies failing. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it's not something that's new. No, it's been around. Like it's happened in the industry before. Yeah. I think what I'm watchful about, and for our conversation today, it's less about the market conditions and the environment that is buy here, pay here. We can certainly talk more about that with Alan as we move forward on the market watch thing. I think there are a number of elements at play and AI spit out some really interesting ones about its own perspective on why we're seeing more failures. in the segment right now. And so again, that's not really our topic for today. Yeah. It's just so interesting. Every time you use the word failure, it's like, I noticed, I noticed that it hits me. It hits a chord that makes me uncomfortable. And you're worried about how our listeners might hear it. Well, maybe, but it's just, it's an interesting thing how we have been conditioned as you know, Americans, whatever, entrepreneurs, humans. I don't know what it is that the word failure is just it's like it. It's almost like I feel this this shrinking back from from that. And it's just it's an interesting it's an interesting paradigm. Yeah. I'm glad you I'm glad you bring that side out because that was really kind of my purpose here today was to talk about. the F word in that sort of context is like, and what does it really mean? And what does it not mean? Like, I think that's the part that I want to have a chance to get to because as an entrepreneur, look, I've had my own failures many, many months ago, probably two years ago on the podcast, I told my story of my own dealership failure and kind of people can find that. And, and I've always told people I'm happy to share. I learned a lot. And I think the thing that I used to say to people in, in business context and working with them is, You know, sometimes you just ask somebody and I can ask myself, am I smart enough to learn from my mistakes? Yeah. Right. We're going to make mistakes, you know, to the idea that we're going to roll out of bed and be entrepreneurs in the morning. And today we're going to be a hundred percent. We're not going to make any mistakes and our business is going to be hugely successful. And we're human beings. We make mistakes. We, we, we operate from the information we have at the time and not all of it turns out exactly as expected. And I think it's kind of this definition of, you know, what is, what is success in business? We can't talk about failure without talking about success. What does success look like? What does failure look like? And I just, in my observations in the last year or so, at least of the people that I have direct knowledge of or have a direct business relationship with, I have watched them navigate various elements. So let's talk about what those include. They include. Um, you know, companies that have failed where I don't necessarily know exactly what happened, but you can draw some general conclusions based on what you see from the sidelines about how they functioned and, and ultimately what was the demise. Then you can look at some of these dealers that we've seen. We've had, we've seen foreclosures. Right. And we've seen dealers come through foreclosure. We've seen dealers struggle to get their lines of credit renewed for various reasons. It could be related to their profitability. It could be related to their equity. We're seeing lenders look to restructure deals to reduce leverage. So we're seeing some of that happen as well, which is an indication of, at least at that level of the capital markets, an indication that they're recalibrating their own and kind of covering their own bases and making sure that they mitigate losses as the market were to shift in a way that they apparently foresee. And so this is all part of, you know, I guess what I'm saying is I'm not, I'm not a prognosticator here. Like when we do the market watch, I'm not coming in there with an expert telling people exactly what's going to happen. I'm bringing the experts to offer insights and we'll, we'll hear from them kind of what they think the, The outlook could be my point would be in the coming months and years here, if we see failure, then we have an opportunity to think now about how we will navigate that and what that will mean to us. And obviously, what can we do today to avoid putting ourselves in that place? I I look at this more as humaning, you know, because that's that's just that's that life is full of those kinds of things. We have, we have a lot of things that we could, we could put the label of it's a failure. Now, I, you know, I think that, that I would love to come up with a different word and you and I talk all the time and it's like, I'll use a word and you're like, can you change that word? Cause that just triggers something. And then it's just, you know, so I, you know, you think about when, when things don't work, I mean, marriages, businesses, you know, people will look at themselves as like, my kid is making decisions that I don't agree and And, and some of the, like we talked about some of the most successful businesses have failed multiple times. Some of the most successful businesses have failed in new products, have failed in a, in a hole and had to boot up and restart again. But when they look at it as an opportunity to start again, knowing what they know and moving forward. And, you know, and I look at like just in the human thing, you and I have been married before and, and, You know, we can look at, you know, is a divorce a failure? A lot of people would think that it would be a failure. But what you learn from it for yourself and how you choose to navigate things differently or set up a system differently or, you know, all of that can can lead to higher successes. in the next time that you step in. And that can be business, that can, you know, all of these things. And, you know, I, in our, you think about like the yin and the yang symbol, okay? the other day that was she was like um she she was feeling some friction around something and so she leaned into asking others asking others asking others asking others and I was like in relationship or in it's like the the Got to let go of ego when we fail. Right. We've got to let go of ego. I mean, we've got to let go of like, I am a fail embodying those things that are happening. Now ego can be a beautiful thing. Cause it's kind of like a warning system. It's like, oh, I'm uncomfortable here. And so that that's the time to lean in when you're feeling like that hit. But what we've noticed is that businesses or individuals who own businesses, who are diversified. that have a lot of different things and they're, you know, they, they are expanding. They're not putting all of their eggs in one basket and, you know, and you can, you can, you can do that for a lot of, a lot of different things, you know, even in relationship, not your intimate partner, but what are the things that you need from relationship? And you may have like best friends and fill all of those things, but dealers that, that, um, that we've noticed that have other businesses that are very used to this paradigm and this cycle of things, they don't get moved as much. I mean, they don't shrink. They're like, okay, what can I learn from this? How can I do this better? And they are more likely to rise out of the ashes of whatever it is that they've just done and then create their next great thing. Yeah. So a couple of things you touched on there. One would be this idea that dealers diversify. This is something we're certainly urging because we've seen some of the most successful dealers have investment beyond just their buy here, pay here operation. So that might be real estate for some. It could be other business ventures. But, you know, I think most of us know that if we met with a financial advisor and they were talking about stocks, you know, split or stock, um, placement, they would be, uh, urging investment that is balanced. And obviously people age, they kind of shift that. But in buyer payer, we see a lot of dealers that are, that is their, their only source of income is this, this dealership operation. And so this is something that we think, you know, where dealers might have some vulnerability and, and obviously that presents opportunity means going forward as you grow. And it's part of what we look forward to doing with why at ways to helping dealers become successful, build plans that allow them to start to diversify their investment and spread that into different elements because we have seen cycles in this segment. We've seen ups and downs and it's often beyond anyone's control. And so this is something that we also see that inefficiencies show up when market shifts, when Cost of capital goes up and now there's more pressure on the operation. We see these inefficiencies sort of show up. And so it's opportunity. And so for today, you know, this is not a gloom and doom conversation day as much as to make dealers aware of a couple of things. One, we want to see dealers avoid, you know, any kind of anything that might be described as failure. Right. Whatever that looks like. Yeah. And then we also want to see them. be able to, if they do find themselves in failure, I think what I've seen is the way people handle it is it really a big difference in terms of how people cope. Okay. So just the actual coping of that kind of failure. So one thing quickly, White Hat Way would be urging that if, if you're a dealer and you're finding yourself in a difficult spot with your lender, communicate, own it. Yeah. And, Get in front of it. Yes. Yes. And operate with integrity through that transition, whatever that looks like. If you're going to be forfeiting assets or whatever that's going to look like, whatever that relationship is going to move into, dealers can show up with integrity and character and they can handle that in a way that is allows for the most successful split that could possibly happen. And in doing so, they obviously, they get to go home feeling good about themselves and how they handle it. They increase the chance of being able to do business with that party or other similar parties in the future. I would just say that that's one of the things that we've seen some dealers really navigate that incredibly well. In recent months, I've seen dealers really go through some stuff that they just were you know, it's just business. It's like, you know, we just, we've taken care of business. We're meeting them, we're negotiating and we're, we're finding, you know, a path forward that makes sense for both of us. And they totally operated with really high character and integrity. And I would say a lot less stress, you know, than some might bring to that. But I think the other piece for me is that this to me is like a thing that we, we need to talk about is like your business is, is not your identity and and if you say well sure it is well then you've made it so in other words that's that's your decision to make your business your identity because we we believe that if your business failed it doesn't make you a failure so it's like you know if your business succeeds you know we can't really claim that identity in the same way we can't really kind of have um You can't have one without, you know, being prepared to accept the other. Well, and it's when you say identity, it's that thing of, are you embodying the experience? Is it becoming a part of who you are? That is where it's like, this is my identity. This is, this is, you know, you start to experience fear around what will others think, you know, there's the, it's just, there's a lot of a lot that we can, we can learn and grow from, from these experiences. And, and one thing that I, you know, as you were, you were kind of talking about it just, it occurred to me and we had this conversation, I think last fall. And it was, it was Russell Moore's wife made a comment. Cause you know, or it was a year ago, maybe, maybe it was like a year and a half ago time where, where he was like, uh, the, uh, the conversation they were having was around how, how, uh, finance companies are cracking down and that they're, you know, they're requesting certain things and, and, you know, the, uh, the dealers are like angry about it or, you know, all of that. And the Russell's wife, and I'm pretty sure that she's like, it's interesting because isn't that what our customers feel about us? Right. And it really is something to just like, and this is where we can take away the embodying and the identity. It's like, we've been through the thing. How can we learn as individuals for our next experience moving, you know, when we are the customer and we're dealing with a business, but what can we learn as a business dealing with our customers? Because it's something, you know, these opportunities just, they present themselves for you as an individual to grow. And it just to spread both ways. It's like, what have I learned about this? That maybe, you know, as we, as we go through some of these things that we feel like, well, there, you know, it's not just that word grace. It's that word grace. And it's like, we ask for grace all the time from those that we owe. Yeah. And, and, and then, you know, and we, and, and then, We are remiss in offering grace to those that owe us. And it's just- Or we're really slow to do it. Yeah, yeah. And so it's like, are we or are we not leaning into grace? Yeah. And, and, and, and, and that, you know, the, those, those opportunities of learning and failure that can go into relationships you have with, you know, your family that can go into friendships that can go into so many different things. It's it's it's the F word is such a. Opportunity to lean in, not be afraid. Yeah. and and learn from the experience and we don't have to shrink from it right but we can learn from it and be better humans for all of those around us by you know what what and it's not about being bitter about what happened and it's like well they did this and it's it's not about pointing fingers because our experience is about no one else except ourselves And so it's like, what can I learn? How can I, how can I, how can I be better? All of them. Right. Yeah. You touched on something there that I think in the context of ego, you mentioned ego. And I think we see a lot of dealers struggling. You can see that theme in a lot of the social media threads is that dealers are, they're kind of, whether it's leverage or not, like that we see a lot of dealers struggling. And I would say that, um, this is that place where ego kind of sometimes prevents us from being able to speak up and to be able to, so this is part of what I put on there. I want to put on the screen. If we're failing or struggling, I would invite, um, any dealer, any business owner to speak it like you to, to just hold it internally and try to solve it yourself is, um, It's not a good recipe. You're more likely to solve that when your ego will allow you to go out and say, I do not have this answer. Can I get some help? Can I share with you what I'm struggling with and get some help from others? Because that's ego that typically prevents us from being able to speak that out loud. And it's because we shrink because we are afraid of what others think. Right. And that it's somehow because we have wrapped this up into our identity. Yeah. And it doesn't, I wanted to get to some comments. Yeah, of course. First off, Shaw of the South, I don't understand this first one, but I got a thumbs up. So thank you for listening from YouTube. Karen, who is one of our White Hat Way ambassadors, and she's actually certified. Yep, that's right. Strength, integrity, and perseverance. Three things that have helped me grow and have made me stronger with my own failures. Helping others learn, grow, and succeed is the greatest gift and would not be possible without the F word. Yeah. Thank you both for your inspiration. Thank you so much for listening. Yeah. Thanks, Karen. And I would say the other thing that's not possible without failure is success. And let me kind of explain what I mean by that. We wouldn't recognize that success. If you didn't know what the other end of the spectrum looks like, you know, if everybody was successful. That wouldn't look like success, right? It's like, we have to recognize that there will be successes. There will be failures. There will be wins and losses. We've covered that in the past. So it's like we're, we're navigating this industry is navigating really weird time. And the pandemic to me is still, we are still feeling the ripple effects. It is not fully. It is not. Yeah. And so to your point, that was certainly beyond anybody's control, right? The entire industry has felt it. The entire economy has felt it. And so I think for dealers to be struggling, I think the best way to avoid failure in this case is to speak it and own it. Because one of the things I talk about when I say own it, it's like when we want to blame others for whatever our failure of today may be, the loss that we're experiencing today, we're sort of dooming ourselves to repeat it. When we place the blame on somebody else instead of accepting our own ownership of whatever we've done to contribute to that situation. But you don't have to embody that still too. Ken Yang, who is our director of dealer services, also White Hat certified. Thank you for joining us. I think that when a dealer is struggling, one of the things that they are dealing with is the shame and guilt that comes with failing. Right. And what I like about what you're saying is that shame is not you as a person. And shame is something that we choose to experience. And it can be, it's kind of wrapped into emotions. And emotions are not meant to be embodied either. They're meant to be experienced. What do I learn from it? And let it go. And so shame and guilt. Sure. Shame and guilt are two of the most. powerful emotions we have been taught to judge ourselves and that's where it can it's like michelle that grace grace to yourself sure is more important than grace to others because when we can be graceful to ourselves it will naturally flow out to others but we have because when we hold ourselves to this like uh you know that shame and guilt is is is the absence of grace sure right and so when we can be like oh I screwed up right what can I learn you know that sucked and it felt awful and and we feel those emotions like shame shame is just ever I I've I've done like I've been married before done marriage counseling um done just like personal development shame is one of the most dirty words that just keep us from who we can really grow to be is shame and then guilt just kind of comes in with that but when we can give ourselves grace and we can let go of shame and we can let go you know of guilt and just lean in and own our mistakes and own our choices and it's like what can I learn what could I what even if there's no way of repairing the experience with You know, and this, this is both ways. It's like, as our customers, they fail. It's like even communicate, what can I learn from this? How could I have been, you know, helped you be successful? How could I have been better in this? And the same thing going the opposite direction, because I'll tell you as a business owner, if someone approached us that had like failed and they said, Hey, I know that there's no way that we can, we can fix this but I want to understand what it was that I could improve next time do you think as a business who has just broken ties or whatever if someone approaches us as a business that says I know that they're you know what could I have done better that your your your level of grace towards them just expands it's just it's like it's a crack of like oh okay yes it's this and this and this and then so then the next time if that same person we know like if it's capital or whatever there are very limited sources so that that the opportunity if you know you you break a relationship and you learn from the relationship and you go and you build again in a year or two, three years, and you come back and you say, hey, I've learned from this. This is what I've done. Would you do business with me now? Your chances are much higher. That's the question I always ask. Like I said, I've asked it of myself before I step into a next business venture. Am I smart enough to have learned and I'm really willing to apply what I've learned? Or am I going to fall into my old habits and practices and Because that can happen. But I think the last thing I kind of wanted to share here is I think for dealers to really have a chance to be successful, but any business owner in this situation is we get on this hamster wheel and we're so focused on keeping our business alive. And so you fall into this place of survival. We see our leverage shrinking. We see our equity shrinking. Our cash is tight. We're struggling. And we're on the brink of possible failure. And, and that, I think what we have to do is be prepared to one step away from it. Like allow yourself to zoom out, step off the Hampshire wheel, catch your breath, step back and say, am I, am I fighting a battle? That's not worth winning. Like, does it make sense? Because a lot of experts, it's not coming from Jim Rhodes. A lot of experts say you're, you're, you're sometimes you're, I forget the exact phrasing, but something like you're, you're, first failure is your best failure. Like you're, you're making an immediate decision to go because the sooner I make the decision to end the thing, whatever it is that I'm working with, the sooner I make the decision, the sooner I can turn my attention to, you know, whatever is going to be smarter for me and my family and whatever else. So I'm not saying, I'm not suggesting to anybody to give up. I'm saying gain some perspective, So you can make a good business decision because it's one of the other things that we've talked about on the podcast before. I find dealers and a lot of entrepreneurs, and I've been there myself. We sometimes think that our best way to solve this problem is to tunnel in and to sell our way out of this hole. We think we're going to sell our way out of this situation, right? All we need to do is sell more cars to solve our problem. And if you'll step out of the forest for a minute, you may find that it not being. Yeah. Right. So this is where I just think that we urge dealers to just take a moment and step away. And I, you know, I just I want to kind of for for what I the message that I would hope and I know that, you know, you're operational. I'm like the hard stuff is that that failure is a time, you know, with grace, but also like a higher level of compassion. Because we recognize as business owners that those that have, with our customers, those that are failing, they're going to be experiencing a level of shame and guilt. They will be. They will be. And you're going to say, there are some, there's so many out there that don't. They are they're not your avatar for who you want to have as your as your customer. And, you know, they're like troublemakers that are doing this. And they're so it's such a small fraction. But sometimes people through shame and guilt can come back with anger. But understand that there is a level of shame and guilt around these things and being compassionate to that and being open and being like, come and talk to them and, and, and, and continuing to just show that grace, the compassion and all of that to those that we would want to have that same thing coming at us from those that, that we, that we, you know, whether it be a business, whether it be an ex spouse, whether it can be whatever, it's like, let's heal that. It's part of healing those relationships so that we can learn and leaning in to heal those relationships and learn, you know, Personally. Yeah. And this is only a very loose connection, but I just want to share one thing that happened yesterday. I think it's kind of significant and it ties into, you know, what we're talking about here in a degree of two degree, but you know, we have our VA dealer groups and they are, they're grouped by portfolio size and we currently have two groups that are in the one hundred account to five hundred. And I just reached out to a dealer yesterday who had originally told me, I don't feel comfortable with having someone else from a, you know, a close radius being involved. Because they're a competitor. They're a competitor and I really don't want them seeing under the hood. And we've seen that happen. But I was able to talk to them a second time yesterday and they agreed to do that. The reason that's important. They agreed to not. Agreed to allow those others to come in. So now what that means is that our dealers in group one get to see all the stuff from group four and vice versa. And so my point in all this is now we get to, because some of those dealers in there are struggling, right? And so we get to have a larger pool of people to draw from to get feedback and see how others are handling a similar thing, whether it's pricing their cars or look at their cashflow position or whatever that looks like. I think it's really just about this back to the kind of, you know, can't see the forest for the trees thing. Zoom out, open your mind and put some ego aside and listen and learn from others. And be ready to share. Like I say to people in the RV environment, you got to give to get. Yeah. Right. And so you got to be willing to contribute. And a lot of times that means being speaking the truth about something you're struggling with. Right. And so this is this is where we make progress and this is where we avoid. you know, potentially a failure is by seeking advice from others, putting some ego aside and opening your mind and your ears and finding ways to get some help from elsewhere. And that, you know, that going back to what Ken had talked about, like, you know, the shame and the guilt part of that. It is typically when we shrink back from conversations because of that, it is typically not going to be anywhere near as bad as you imagined. It's going to be when you step in and have the conversation. We can say that as business owners, you know, where a consumer is, you know, they're, they're faulting there and, and that it's like, oh, they're going to be, they're going to be, it's going to be so awful. They're going to, it's this and this, and it's like sitting down and having that conversation with someone and being vulnerable about it. It's, it's rarely. rarely as bad as you think it's going to be. Yeah. Yeah. I think, um, I would just say, cause you touched on it. Let me just kind of connect the dots in what I was hearing, you know, in order for us to, um, if we're struggling as a business and as a buyer, payer, dealer, then it's a moment for us to stop and recognize, well, our customers are struggling. And how would we want that customer to function in a situation where they were falling behind? They didn't know what to do. We would, we would want them to communicate and be forthcoming and be a cooperative and trying to find solutions. So I think we can ask the dealers to, to do the same thing, to try to bring that same approach. Like what would you, what would you ask your customer to do in that situation? Kind of what you were talking about, Laurel Moore's Russell's wife, kind of what she was suggesting. And then I think I could extend the same thing to the lenders that are lending to these dealers. They can show a little cooperative. How would they want the customer to perform with the dealer in order for the dealer to be successful? Now, how would the, it goes right on up the thing. And so I think I can say generally speaking across our industry, we've seen lenders in a post COVID period be pretty cooperative and flexible and work through a pretty difficult period with dealers. I think generally I've seen that be the case. And I just think it's probably going to be more of it. Yeah. And, you know, we have to understand, though, that sometimes you have to close a relationship. Of course. Yeah, absolutely. But I you know, I love this White Hat way. What White Hat way really is, it's it's it's about teaching individuals how to lean in with their customers. how to have, how to experience more grace, more compassion. And it's, and it's, it's about, it's, it's not a, it's, it is a business thing, but it's more an individual thing. It's, it's, and, and when we can learn these principles, our businesses are stronger. And, you know, we can bring in these compassion and with our teams, with our consumers, with ourselves, with our relationships, just imagine how much less strife and conflict and all of those things that we will experience in all directions of our lives. And so the white hat principles are not just about how to apply them to your business, but it's like, how do I apply this to myself? How do I apply this principle to all relationships that I have, whether it's me as a consumer, me as a partner in a relationship, me as a business owner where I'm, you know, I have consumers, how can these principles help? Yeah. And I say, you know, one of the phrases that I've sort of adopted in the white hat context is I feel like the work that we're doing is helping to infuse trust between buyers and sellers. Okay. So we can talk through all the ways that you get there, but the bottom line is all the people we've talked about lenders and dealer borrowers, dealers and their consumer borrowers. Like we, when we can infuse a higher level of trust, which by the way, a future F word that we're going to bring to the podcast is fear. it's that same thing as shame and shame and guilt is a fear-based so look for a future half word topic and we'll bring back just a couple more things that ken piped in and he says like that's right most people think that the conversation will be horrible but when the conversation is had it's not that bad yeah and um and then ken also is like also Also, I'm willing to have a conversation with struggling dealers under the umbrella of White Hat Way at no cost to them. So thank you, Ken. Ken is actually, you know, he's the director of of dealer services. He's also stepping in as a moderator for our V eight groups and is a, is a dealer that's winding up some of his operations. So, and he's going to be joining us full time. Once a lot of this gets, gets wound up, wound down, not wound up, but wound down. And yeah, I just thank you so much for that. I can say I'm pleased to have Ken on our team. And he's somebody who's lived through successes and struggles. And so he's at lease your pay here, buy here, pay here. He's on reinsurance. He's somebody who brings a wealth of perspective on the industry. And I would just say that he's also, he sees the importance of these principles that we're teaching. So, you know, to be a White Hat certified coach, you really are going to have to buy into those elements of, of, you know, how you conduct business. And, and Ken certainly does that. And it's leaning in. Yeah. It's leaning in, not leaning out. Right. Leaning in. Yeah. And, and, you know. And showing up with character and integrity. Absolutely. And owning it. Yep. Okay. I love these kinds of conversations. Me too. I mean, you can tell I just, I get a little bit of, it's, you know, I, I love, I love being able to, to offer some perspective on how do we. The core of something and it goes in all directions and it's not just in business, but it's, it's, it really is. It's an all direction kind of thing. And we're. We're just giving examples of how to apply it to buy here, pay here, because of any industry in this world, that is one that needs grace for their consumers more than just about any other. So yeah, so grateful to be here. Friday, Alan Keat, we're going to be talking about the market. Yeah, used car prices, kind of the outlook on used cars, and so there's some important stuff there. So join us on Friday. All right, everybody. Have a great rest of your week until Friday. And we really appreciate you making us
