Wake up, Buy Here, Pay Here people. It's a beautiful day. Go grab yourself another cup of Joe and say hello to Jim and Michelle Rhodes on the Buy Here, Pay Here Morning Show. Take it away, you two. Oh, good morning, everyone. Happy Wednesday, friends. Thanks for tuning in. Happy to provide a couple of quick updates. We got... our, uh, kind of couple of V eight meetings, um, right. And, uh, we, so yeah, we've got those, uh, earlier in the month and now we have two more, we consolidated into, uh, uh, four meetings this month because of the number of our members who were attending the BHP thing, which starts next week. So got that happening. And then, uh, we'll, we'll continue to provide updates as we get closer. Also, I want to make a note that, um, may fifth is the date that I show that, um, Brent Carmichael will present and collect the cash, not the car, in Texas. I don't remember the exact venue. And it's the second. Yeah, it's Friday the second that he appears with us on the podcast. We haven't changed that. I got some of the changes. May second, he's coming. We had to reschedule. He had some stuff come up at the last minute that prevented him from coming. Yeah. And we've enjoyed a fun little exchange about cannot do that again. Yeah. We'll let him tell you that story when it comes to see us on the second. So we look forward to having him come. Obviously the conference is coming up. He's busy doing NIADA, twenty groups. And of course they're fast approaching the conference. Like the cash, not the car. yeah still still doing that outside of twenty that's an in-person seminar style thing like so busy always always yeah so always oh good but uh but yeah happy to have him uh attending so and then again uh those of you who uh are thinking about maybe going to a conference and haven't you know uh decided or whatever We will be at NIADA's conference. We actually have a booth in the expo hall to talk to people about V-AID, talk to people about White Hat Wave, talk to people about all of the things. And Jim is also going to be presenting and then giving some free tools on profitability and cashflow. Yeah. All good. All right. That will probably be, um, related somewhat to our topic on Friday. We haven't announced the actual topic for this coming Friday, but, uh, we'll look for it to be around those topics. Yeah. We do a lot of math on Fridays. We just do a lot of, you do a lot of math period. Yeah. It was a big topic of our conversation last night in our V eight meeting. And so, uh, yeah, well, it's like, cause you were so excited. He, Jim comes out, uh, like I I'm putting some members together differently. And I think this could be really, really impactful. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know how much of that I'll bring on Friday, but I'm, I'm prepared some new sort of analysis that compares member over member. And it really starts to shed light on a couple of things, the difference in the business models, like especially the tail of the collections on the twenty four months versus the thirty six month kind of thing. So there's some really, interesting things that develop out of that number and it's good because it helps accentuate the difference between the dealer's numbers and so it lets us begin to better evaluate what is the difference why do these numbers look so much different for some than others and so it's it's been helpful yeah I was the other day listening to some recordings from one of the v-eight meetings and I'm just like I enjoy listening to these guys talk Oh, yeah. And, you know, like the conversations, the topic comes up and it's just like, what do you think? What do you think? What do you think? What do you think? What do you think? It's fantastic. Yeah, no, it's good stuff. We had a really great meeting last night. All right. We we wanted to want it. We last week we talked about an effort. Failure. Failure. And you know how that's like a that's a dirty word and buyer payer and Jim was like, we got another F word. Yeah. So last week's topic was around failure in particular. In particular, that conversation was more around dealers dealing with failure of their business. Like if they've been through a failure or if they're on the brink of kind of a lot of financial pressure and possible failure, then we talked about that. And obviously part of what's wrapped up in all that is, is fear of, right. I just want to say we had people reaching out to us afterwards and just like, thank you. So, you know, that there's, if you, if you didn't get a chance to watch, go back. It was last Wednesday and, and, you know, take a, take a couple of minutes and listen to some of the things there, because it's just part of it was, it's like, there is no shame in things not working. Right. Yeah. And listen, you know, it's worth saying that as we step into this conversation around fear and drop another F bomb, I guess that I think it's important to recognize that we're, We just have to speak about the thing, which is most of the dealers that we know in the buy here, pay here segment, it's still an industry that is predominantly men who are dealer principals, right? And men are conditioned to not show fear, right? Or speak about being afraid or fearful of anything. They're the ones that are supposed to be the protectors for crying out loud. So, I mean, culturally, that's like, I have to be strong and tough and all of that. Yeah, and so I think sometimes that feeds some of what we're going to talk about here because we, in order for us to really address any fears, we first have to be able to acknowledge them, right? We have to be able to say that there is some fear here. And I think it's there. It's always been there. We just don't talk about it in that context. I certainly don't hear others talking about it in this context. So let's get to it, what we mean by it. And Michelle and I have touched on this in the past is. Yeah. When we talk about the word fear in this context of the buy here, pay here segment, for our listeners who are less familiar, This buy here, pay here segment of dealers who do their own financing, they provide financing on their own inventory for folks who are often described of as unbankable, right? So that means that the customer doesn't have a lot of credit options because of their credit circumstances. They need an unconventional finance solution. So as a result, they're at a dealer who is providing them a financing solution. And there's just a lot of fear on both sides. So we'll go through that in some detail, but go ahead. Yeah, Amanda piped in. Hi, Amanda. yeah good to see you um bunch of strong and silent types in our industry yeah which is very very true and and unfortunately and this is something it's like we're bringing some of these hard topics to light to because it's even strong silent means I can't I can't talk about it because it would it would it would show weakness I can't you know but it's like um these things like Where is our fear based? And fear in itself is a word that elicits weakness. It's like when you hear, I'm afraid of this. And to be clear, our fear that we're talking about this morning is not any fear of the dark or fear of whatever. It's like of that nature. I do believe in the boogeyman. Yeah. Yeah. So it's really, in this case, it's more about the fear that exists between the dealer and the consumer. We can describe it initially as some level of discomfort, where people, let's back it up and say, okay, so this customer who knows they're in a tough credit spot, they know they don't qualify for conventional financing. They're at a dealer that they know is going to charge them a high APR. They don't know how the enforcement is going to go on the collection side. They've had maybe some experiences in the past, you know, in this kind of a business relationship. So there's a, if we think about the, the, the lens of the customer looking at and stepping into a new relationship and buying a car from a dealer, we all know kind of what the perception is across there. And now we have to think about what is the perception of the consumer themselves? Well, and, and as dealers, um we find new tools we find new ways of doing things to mitigate our fear what tools are our customers given right to mitigate their fear okay we're just asking you don't be afraid and you mean tools for the dealer you're talking about underwriting tools and all of those things it's like it helps to mitigate those fears that we have which you know they're they're based in reality. It's like the things that, that dealers are, the things that dealers are afraid of. That's, that's one thing I think that we should just like setting the stage. They are based in real things for it's because emotions and those it's the, the, the one is, is like, yeah, it's there, but do we have to be afraid of it? Right. And then the consumers, same thing. It's the, it's the consumer's fear is a lot around what the CF, got it right here CFPB got a reference sheet because he's like you can't you screw that up um the CFPB is there to help mitigate the fears of the consumer but the you know and it's just so it's an entity that's there it's like be fair be fair so how you know fear is real and um and it's it's something that that uh you know dealers are always looking for ways to be able to to to have them so they can feel less fear. There's just, they're always looking for ways to feel less fear around this. And listen, Michelle and I are not psychologists. We're not here to talk about, but how that fear manifests from the customer side is, you know, there's a myriad of different ways that that shows up. I have, you know, we love chat GPT. Oh yeah. Yeah. Do you want me to go through? Not yet. Not yet. I think the part that we really want to talk about is we, the part that when we just look at the wide lens and think about okay if dealers can start to see the customer experience through this lens of fear they're afraid of you they're afraid of all dealers in a way and now today they're buying a car and there's some level of fear that may manifest in a number of different ways and so I think we want to talk about that and then when we talk about let's look at the fear of the cut or the dealer side looking at the customer they're afraid what this customer is going to not make the payments and end up in default that they're going to hide the car damage the car not change the oil I mean go on and on and on all the reasons that the dealer is afraid to step into a business relationship with the customer so we've got all these ways that they try to make a judgment and make a determination should I do business with this customer but the main premise that I'm trying to get to is that both Parties arrive at that meeting with the same, they're a different list, but they both bring fears to that new business relationship. And so the concern becomes that it may cloud the approach, right? So you can share what you have over there. I've got my screen ready whenever you want to share mine. Let me just read part of this. It says, fear plays a pivotal role in shaping the dynamics of the buy-here, pay-here customer-dealer relationship. Amen. Since buy-here, pay-here transactions typically involve customers with limited or challenged credit, and dealers assuming direct finance risk, fear manifests on both sides in ways that can undermine trust, communication, and long-term success. This is like, this is so white hat way guys. So white hat way. Here's a breakdown of how fear impacts each side of it. So I've got that on my screen. If you want to share that, I've got the same thing on my screen. If you want to share it. Excellent. So you need to scroll down a bit. Impacts. Lack of trust in the dealer. Yeah. yeah a customer just has to have one or two bad experiences and that has been undermined consumers often enter with skepticism assuming the dealer may exploit their financial vulnerability this is chat gpt this can lead to guarded interactions or seek clarification, fueling misinformation and poor decision-making. Yeah. Before we go further, let me go back and just read the prompt that I gave it. Keep in mind, this is an ongoing thread that as we stepped into this topic. So the question I ask is please list the ways that fear has an impact on the relationship between the BHBH consumer and the dealers who provide the subprime auto. Yeah. And let's just keep in mind as well is that this is, our chat GPT thread. There is White Hat Way elements that we have fed into it. And it's learning based on White Hat Way principles. I will also say that it's somewhat validating that when we first started using chat GPT, we could refer to White Hat Way and it could scour the web and all the other resources out there. And it pretty quickly understood what White Hat Way was about. So fear and trust. Hand in hand. And I, I'm a hundred percent agree with that. You know, we, when we talk about White Hat way and helping dealers become known, liked and trusted. Right. Right. Okay. So the second one, reluctance to communicate financial trouble. Right. Does this resonate with anyone listening? We've talked about this plenty. Absolutely. Fear of repossession or judgment, judgment. I don't think they're talking about like legal judgment, but being judged. Okay. Two. may cause customers to hide problems like job loss or temporary hardship instead of reaching out for support. The secrecy of this can escalate a minor issue into a major default. And, you know, we didn't specify here the difference between at the time of... So I think this is going into the account side when the customer's already been financed and approved. But I would say that this also... The reluctance to communicate financial trouble is why your customer doesn't want to disclose when you meet them that they've had a recent repo or that they need wheels. They're afraid that if they share that stuff with you as a dealer, you're not going to approve. And so there's a fear element that causes them to withhold and we should not be surprised. So our process, this is what part of I've done in my coaching careers to help dealers create a process that helps get past that. So let's go ahead. Yeah. OK, so the third one is feeling trapped. Right. And I'm just going to precursor that. I mean, when anyone feels trapped, they do not bring their best self. Yeah, it just it's typically that's just what happens. Customers may feel they have no other option due to credit barriers. And how I'm sidebar, how many dealers go into a. relationship with a consumer feeling like you got no other choice. You got to do it my way because you got no other choice. So that's a fulfilling, that is fulfilled. It is a correct assumption. They feel trapped because they have no other options due to credit barriers leading to resentment or anxiety over their dependence on the dealer. which hinders relationship building. Yeah. There's, there's a layer of resentment in there. So again, these are words that chat GPT found based on you saw the short description that I asked for just, and it chat GPT knows a lot about our industry. It knows a lot about this consumer dealer relationship. Yeah. Um, for this, and again, everybody listening is going to be like, yup. I just love how it can articulate the things. Um, avoidance behavior. Fear of confrontation over missed payments or vehicle issues may lead consumers to avoid the dealership altogether. Missing opportunities for repair, payment assistance, or education. So I know, like, what we're giving right this minute is, like, these are the what-is's, and we're going to talk about what you can do about it. Sure. How you can – because these are real. These are a hundred percent. This is what we – what our – we always we talk about like who our client is our client is a dealer but our ultimate client is a consumer sure so um you know these they're like super super real and then the last one on there is low self-worth or shame um and its customers may internalize the subprime label leading to low engagement lack of advocacy for their needs and to believe that they deserve poor treatment discouraging progress and trust. There are a lot of people out there that I know I can, I just like, they deserve it. It's just like, this is, you've said there are consumers that you dealt with when, when you have your dealership, it's like, this is what I deserve. This is what I'm going to get. I'm just going to flow with. Yeah. I don't know that when I think about that, when I've talked about that in the past, I wouldn't say that that's what the customer felt like they deserve, but that they just sort of had to resign themselves. They were kind of happy to go lucky for the most part. And just, you know going through life like we all do going through their paces and and it wasn't repairing their credit was not something I saw as a as a driving motivation for them in other words they were kind of resigned to the idea that that was their lot in life is kind of the way I've described it before and so that can be true I think as far as what they deserve and how they kind of internalize that is a different thing I just would just remind everybody I think it's so fascinating that this is the language that chat gpt chose that it goes in and identifies these traits and kind of behaviors. Well, it is. And it's, it's, I think they articulate it in a way that helps Michelle and me to, these are things that we talk about often, but we, you know, we're leaning on chat GPT more recently because it does. Sometimes it picks up a thing that we haven't thought about in some time. but also it articulates with better phrasing. Sometimes the thing that we're working all the time to articulate. And so this is why we really appreciate what. So should we go into the, what fears by your pay your dealers? So, you know, we've talked about, these are all the fears that the consumer will. So, you know, there are, there are fears that dealers have that are, that are, it's like, I get it. I totally get it. You want me to start assuming the worst of customers. dealers may generalize negative past experience approaching every customer with suspicion. This creates cold transactional relationships rather than partnership based ones. Yeah. Yeah. That's so interesting to me. It's like, we talk about this sometimes in other contexts, but it's like, that's us. Let me be a dealer for a minute. I'm a dealer or an underwriter or both. And so I, I come into this new relationship today. So I have just meeting for the first time and I bring yesterday's experiences, good and bad into this relationship. And it causes me to have a jaded view potentially of the customer that I'm meeting today. And as a result, I react. In my underwriting, I'm very defensive and protective. I hear dealers talk about it regularly, the things that they're doing to guard against certain things. That's not appropriate measures. They are taking risk and they have to manage that risk, right? And it can become transactional rather than partnership-based. If we if we could think about approaching that customer in a way that we we lean in and look at, you know, could this customer be successful on our program? Right. If we were to and we can see that they've struggled and failed in the past. I see dealers put up hard lines around if they've got this in their past, it's a hard no. Right. And this and this. So I think what I'm what I would draw from this is when we can open our eyes to the idea that maybe we don't need to look for the worst, you know, we need to look for both and we need to find out, could this customer be successful if given the right framework, the right tools and the right program and structure, could they be successful? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Two over reliance on control tools. Interesting. I, I, I, I was like, oh man, that's, This fear of default may push dealers to aggressively use GPS tracking, kill switches, or quick repossession, which can be interpreted as punitive rather than supportive. And this is something that Jim and I have talked about because like, we are fans of GPS. It's like this, this is a pretty, this is a pretty expensive asset that's out, you know, that's out on the road. And so we're fans of that. And, you know, we've seen really successful, um, proteins where it's like that, that the, the type of kill switch, or when you hear the chirp, it's a good reminder. Yeah. You know and it's it's kind of like that push and and all of that and so there there's there's could be really good things By the way in that John GPD has never heard the word kill switches from me. No, that's something it found by scouring And but just the control tools and I and I see not just that but I it's like some of the underwriting tools are programmed to be so narrow. And we're still like juries out on something. We've been like, we want to get more debt. How good are these loans actually performing? But there's lots of different, control tools that we use, like an underwriting control tools or actual vehicle control tools. Yeah. So let me try to speak to something on this before we move forward. This idea that if I were looking through the lens of the CFPB or I'm over here as a spokesperson for White Hat Way and looking at this particular set of problems about being punitive rather than supportive. My question would be, and this is something for all of us to go back and look at, you dealers, collection supervisors, anybody listening to this is like, ask yourself in our protocols or our procedures and our policy around taking action against a customer who is in default, my question would be, what can you see in your records look at your logs what can you see in your records how much effort did you put forth as the collection agency how much effort did you put forth in trying to resolve that with the customer before you resorted to repossession so this is not a statement as much as it is a question of can we show as creditors that we did everything reasonable to try to communicate with the customer. I think that's all that the CFPB wants. It's just like, are you doing everything you can? I can tell you that's all White Hat Way wants. Yeah. We just want to make sure, because customers are going to still hide. They're still going to default. It's still going to happen. My question would be, can we as dealers, because we, I always talk about, you know, when I was a dealer, I wanted to know that I could sleep well at night, you know, and why is that a factor? Well, I just wanted to know that we had done our part. Yeah. And so what this says is we're, if we're, if we resort to punitive before we're supportive, then it just begs the question. I mean, how much did we contribute to the failure of that account? I think we have to be ready to ask ourselves those questions because if we don't, and we don't sort that out, then we don't, we don't ever, we can sit in meetings and we can look at composite reports and we can say, you know, our repossessions are high, but I think until we can answer these questions for ourselves, are we doing enough as the creditor? to provide support and solutions? And are we communicating effectively? Um, and, and so that the customer doesn't run and hide just, just something we as an opportunity. Right. Um, the third one is defensive communication. Dealers may adopt a rigid or legalistic tone, fearing disputes or chargebacks. And this often discourages open dialogue and damages customer support. How many of us threaten? Yeah. legal action? I don't know if they'll threaten action, repossession. A legalistic, like. I like the legalistic thing, like you're getting serious, which obviously there comes a time. Yes. I think that begs the question is, if we get rigid and harsh, then there will be customers who respond to that. I think Tommy's then, Tommy Brandes, great dealer, also the executive Director of Marietta. One of the things that he, as we've talked about this before in conversation, he's like, the approach is, please don't make me repo you. It's like, we can work this thing together. And I don't want to repo. I don't want to repo. So please don't put me in a corner where I don't have a choice but to do that. And so there's a difference in will repo you if you don't pay this then please don't make me repo sure because it's it's something I'm I'm prepared to do but there is a way for us to get through this together right thing yeah I think that um essentially it talks about chargebacks and and maybe it's um it's charge offs maybe is what they're really going for here. But, um, I think the idea that it discourages open dialogue. And I would say that when, when it's been my observation and the whole thing about punitive, um, you know, instead of rewarding the customer for good behavior, we punish them for bad behavior tends to be the norm. And my, my fear has always been when we take that hard approach, yes, that approach will produce some car payments. but that's a very short lived sort of solution. It gets a car payment in the door, but when we adopt that sort of approach, across a three year business relationship, there's going to come a point where the customer cannot perform on that. And the outcome too many times is going to be repossession. And so that's never the outcome that I would be looking for. I think most of our dealers don't expect that. So this is where I think we can. And this is stuff that is tricky because policies and procedures are pretty black and white. You can adapt policies to help you reflect a little more um leniency cooperation and policy but that kind of ties back to what we talk about is philosophy it's like philosophy is so important all these things we're talking about and I think in order for us to start to alleviate fear and and we can't always control what happens on the customer side but we can have more control as dealers over what happens in our processes and our training and the culture that we create and how we communicate and how we navigate our own fears. And, and if we really, we have to ask ourselves and the math comes into play here. We have to ask ourselves, are we really committed to this customer success? Do we really want to see this customer continue to make their payment to stay in the car? Yeah. Well, and it's, it's, you know, we're always looking for if, if we can move the needle within, within our portfolio by, by, a percentage point two percentage points in favor of success um just like run the numbers how much better your the strength of your portfolio the you know what what you're collecting on your portfolio actually what what happens with that and and and moving that needle is is it's I think that there's a big part of let go of fear and let's do some things that really help a consumer let go of fear and be able to work with you and talk to you and become more open to open communication. Besides the actual mathematics that you're talking about, and again, I'm the numbers guy, but I want you to think about the scenario that you're my customer. I have an opportunity, there's something happens and I can repossess you this week or not repossess you this week. I will work out something to get you back and we have a conversation and we save the loan. So now you as a customer next week, you're sitting at a lunch table at work and somebody says, I'm gonna go shopping for a car. So I'm just saying the actual impact is felt in a way that's not measurable in terms of what is the value of having happy customers still in my portfolio versus a repo customer. And I would say, I've noticed this across my careers, like the smaller the market that we're in, the more amplified this thing we're talking about here becomes. How many customers failed on their account, ended up in repossession? And do you think they're telling a story that it was their fault? that they did something to end up in repossession. You know, it's like, that's something that there's, there's impact to this. And I think our ability to save this is, is largely around this thing about communication. Can we communicate more openly? So go ahead. Number four is reduced willingness to offer flexibility. And, you know, for the most part, I see dealers trying really hard to be flexible. I do too. Dealers afraid of being taken advantage of or may avoid offering grace periods or personalized solutions. They miss the chance to retain good customers through difficult times. And, you know, a lot of our listeners, a lot of the dealers that we work with, that's like they're willing to be flexible or try. being flexible to see how things might improve. We hear from dealers, mostly in social media, not necessarily the people we work with that are very, they have a very hard line. They're not very flexible in these kinds of things. And I would just add that, you know, the approach that I have always adopted and taught in our training is in collections, an approach that is about a bend without breaking approach, you know, bend cooperation and flexibility. Sometimes what happens is dealers have a limit, how flexible they can be because of their borrowing based limitations. Yeah. When they're with a lender and they have a line of credit, there can be some additional pressures. The last one, which is just like, I see this happen. And sometimes there's a rallying happens frequently too, that can happen, but Burnout and emotional fatigue. Yeah. Constant exposure to financial risk and high customer turnover due to fear-driven practices can lead to disengagement, cynicism, and short-term thinking within the dealership. And I pay attention to the buyer-payer success page, and frequently there's a dealer that's coming up and it's like, I am exhausted. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, being a business owner, period, there are points of exhaustion. I think that we can help mitigate some of those things of that the exhaustion that comes from fear based practices. Yeah. And then it concludes with the vicious cycle of fear. And I just it's this is just really a great way to wrap up because, you know, we've talked about yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Fear on either side can reinforce the other. A fearful dealer may act in ways that confirm a customer's worst expectations, and a fearful customer may behave in a way that validates a dealer's caution. This mutual distrust erodes the potential for loyalty, growth, and long-term value. And so, you know, because this is White Hat Way, the White Hat Way mission is to break this cycle by replacing fear with transparency. empathy and shared responsibility. Would you like a version? Well, it says that we'd like a version of this impact analysis format formatted for training. But it's there there is a there was a piece in there. It's like how do how can White Hat way and, and, and dealers like reduce this fear? Yeah. So I want to come back, actually, you moved kind of quickly through this last one. I just want to read it one more time. Yeah. Because I, I think, Most dealers that I know don't speak about this. And I think we can, that means we're burying it. It's not that, so I'm gonna read it again. It says, constant exposure to financial risk and high customer turnover due to fear-driven practices can lead to disengagement, cynicism and short term thinking within the dealership. So it's not just the dealer, it's the team and the whole thing is like that spills over. All of these things with the fear of the buyer, payer, assuming the worst of customers. I mean, how it's like I have sat and had conversations with salespeople that it's just like crap. yeah yeah and uh wow well it just shapes attitudes but I would say that you know it's to to deny and to say well I'm not emotional so I don't I don't know what you're talking about with this emotional fatigue it's like well I you know I was under the impression we were human beings out there and so I'm just saying it's a real thing if the more we can recognize that and take ownership of it and start to identify what are the things that are contributing to that because you're talking about something more than stress yeah right there's financial stress and pressures of running a business and then ours has something of an emotional toll to it and uh yeah so I would say that's part of what I would um say is the reason I wanted to really you know emphasize that particular point is like I just think we in order for us to really move the needle in this industry and we will right And the way that we will is to talk about those things, get them on the table. And one thing I can share, and of course, our certification course is still, I think, for the remainder of this year, you can expect it will be invitation and nomination only for the remainder of this year. But if you're interested, reach out. Yeah, by all means, we'd love to talk to you about it. But it's like we want people to know what's happening there. It's just that it's not, don't look for registration link for the certification course yet, because we're just doing invitation only this year. But one of the things that we tell our class, we just had our first one in February, you can expect it. We're not going to be talking about cost of cars. We're not in this course for this, you know, six hours of coursework. We will be talking about the intangibles, right? And so a lot of these things that are know not measured in the balance sheet they're not going to show up on your your twenty group composite this is stuff that is more you know um kind of soft edges and we recognize that those things have a real impact on our sustainability and business and so this is part of what I think it's um it's important for us to to recognize those things so um I know you asked a second question, because I think it's important that we go through some of these solutions. Sure. Do you want to find out on the screen? Well, I mean, I've got the one that talked more about White Hat Way, but these are things, I mean, for crying out loud, you don't have to have White Hat Way in order to have a good relationship with your consumer. And so, you know, it's just we're just creating... training and tools to help these things to happen. But there's plenty of dealers out there that we see that actually. So I'm going to start with what dealers can do. And well, no, I'm not going to start yet. No. Yes. Because I think some of this just goes both ways. The first thing is transparent communication. Transparency, transparency, transparency, transparency. And we can't, you know, it's like in any relationship, any relationship we have, that when we approach a relationship with you change first, that it will never change. And I can speak to this from very personal experience on interpersonal. I mean, like personal relationships where it's just like this person will never change. And I can have that kind of attitude. And then I can see all of the reasons why I'm right. Right. And until we're willing to be the first one to move. it's that, that, that's, that actually starts to break down barriers. And so it's like clearly explaining the dirt, the deals of, uh, the terms of the deal. That's one way with, and, and, you know, we paper that we tell dealers all the time. When you go through a closing of a loan, there is a lot of fricking stuff that's being thrown at someone and also thrown at someone who more often than not does not have an education or an understanding around financial literacy. They just don't. And, you know, I've interviewed enough consumers to understand it's like we, you know, it's they're, they're, they're honestly living paycheck to paycheck because they don't understand, you know, and they see three hundred dollars in their account and don't realize that this bill has not come out yet. and looking at it from a different paradigm. So, you know, really helping explain the terms of the deal and then re-explaining the terms of the deal after the deal is closed. And so we've talked about create some kind of program within your dealership where the terms, the things, the tools, the stuff that can help a consumer be successful is reiterated in, and hopefully in a playful way, in a fun way that the kids it's like, oh yeah, that's right. And it will help it stay front of mind. You know, these are the programs. This is what you, you know, this is what we're willing to do. Just, you know, we are asking just you, but being really super transparent about it. So, um, uh, using plain jargon, free language, contracts are not in plain English. And so nobody's going to read every line. Yeah, exactly. But it's important that they, they understand that radical honesty and clarity is what gives customers confidence. It's just like radical honesty and clarity and in a kind way. The next one is, is like truly being committed to the success of your, of your consumer. And that is like, having a proactive communication with your, with your customers. Um, you know, uh, we, we, we tend to get ourselves in this trap that no news is good news. That is not true because you can have those that really, really need your help. And when they, we all know everyone hits roadblocks, they hit hard things that happened to them that, The no news is good news is they don't have a relationship with you. To be able to say, hey, guys, it's hard to be communicative and transparent with someone you don't know. And if all you know of your consumer, your customer, is that they have auto pay and they pay every month. you're missing something that's really, really that it's like, it can just add so much value to your repeat in your referral and all of that. So just really being committed. So being proactive and having some personalized support grace, you know, grace periods, financial literacy tools, you know, how can we, as we're reaching out to them, help teach them little things and not waiting to teach them little things. when they're in a world of hurt and trouble and they're already feeling shame and they're already feeling, you know, they're pulling back because very few of our customers lean in, they lean out. And so having these kinds of tools. Yeah. Yeah. No, Michelle is describing some of the things that are white hat certified dealers will see become part of the sort of white hat program in terms of, our ability to help dealers solve these problems that are, you know, when we can create tools and solutions and sort of a means, uh, um, that'll allow us to help dealers, um, in before the sale, um, somewhat during the sale and certainly after the sale, because what I, what in sales, when I worked in new car sales, they talked about follow up, the customer bought the car and we follow up, right. Um, or follow up on people who didn't buy. Right. Yeah. But I prefer the word follow through in this context. So that's this idea that after customer buys that fire hose situation on the day they bought the car and yes, they signed the papers because they were in a tough spot and they were in a hurry and whatever. And so they did the thing. But now I think the other thing that we should recognize and that we have a chance to do with way is to help dealers. drive home the message because if they're genuine in their support of the customer and they genuinely have an interest in the success of the customer, then that sounds like a used car salesman on the day the customer's buying the car. Sign here, sign here. Don't worry, we're going to support you. So I think the follow-through element that Y-Hatway can help dealers to create is where we continue to communicate with the customer so that they can see that our statements of of commitment to support and a commitment to success is, is still there. We're still saying it after they already own the car. And now we have a chance to really reinforce and build on the relationship and the report that was mentioned. Right. And what, what, uh, what White Hat way is building and anyone can do this, but we're just, we're just doing the work because we know dealers are busy. And so dealers can lean in and step in on this is one, um, creating a level of trust as a lead. Um, and, and being able to nurture, like we can, you know, here's, here are things that you can do to improve your, your experience. Um, another thing is, is that we, we personally sign a white hat pledge of our white hat way, um, uh, pledge to anyone that we're signing a contract. Right. And it's like, these are principles that we, and it's not a legal binding document, but it's just like, this is our statement, our pledge of, of what we will bring to this. It's a commitment to uphold certain principles. And so white hat way dealers, um, have a, a, this pledge that they sign with their consumers or with their customers. And what we encourage them to do, because there's a lot of paperwork is that they send it again after this is kind of part of the follow up. And, and, and, you know, when you, when you just, you sell people, it's like follow up, follow through or got any problems. Okay. Well, it was great seeing you. And if you've got any, any referrals, let us know. I mean, they're still selling. And this is like, we just, when you send this document again, it's like, and then continue in an, in a communicative way with them on a cadence. They don't have to do anything to get you. You've got their, their cell phone number. You've got their email address of like, we're going to, we're going to talk a little bit about transparency or we're going to talk a little bit about this. And it's just like, we are still here. And so, and, and just reinforcing and reeducating, reinforcing and reeducating, reinforcing and reeducating, um, and yeah that's to me is like that's a super important thing I remember growing up I don't remember right okay like uh I grew up in a religious household and you were you were encouraged to read your scriptures the bible every year and you know like Old Testament than the New Testament, because that's an awful lot of reading. And it's like, depending on what your circumstances are, it speaks to you differently. And something like the White Hat Way Pledge, based on what your circumstances are, if you continually present that to your consumer, it will, when the time is right, speak to them in a way that's like, oh, I can do this. Continue to reach out to them and develop a relationship. No news is not good news in this business. Not always. It's important to stay engaged and to not assume. We want the payments and we're glad the payments are coming in. But next month, next week could be the time that we need to have some relationship and some equity established in that relationship. And so it'll be important for us to maintain that. And I would say that We've kind of skimmed over it, but I think it's relevant. We talk a lot about in White Hat Way and on our Wednesday broadcast, we talk a lot about the subject of trust. And I would say it's not surprising to me that because of this fear factor we're talking about, that when a dealer meets a customer for the first time, there's low levels of trust on both sides. And I think, as you said, dealers are, in my mind, the ones to lead with this. They're the ones to step in and establish some degree of trust. And I think one of the things that was touched on here that I think doesn't also get spoken about enough, and that is way out way is definitely gonna be supportive of this mutual responsibility, shared responsibility. We think both parties should be prepared to fulfill their part. So it's not like we're asking dealers to do this, this, this, and this to take care of the customer. We expect the customer to do their part in order to have a successful business relationship. And we want to be supportive in that. We want to make sure that we have ways that reward and support the customer for doing those things. But the part I really want to get to before we close up here is this idea that as a dealer myself years ago and a manager before that, I I really came to believe in this idea that I want to start every business relationship with a customer from a place of trust. I want to do what I can before we hand over the keys. And I used to really in training, I would talk about this, like I'm about to hand over the keys, right? And I'm in the final stages of approval. We're really close to getting the financing worked out for you. Just a couple of final questions. I see on your credit report this. Can you explain this? now I just sit quietly and I wait for them to talk transparency and trust yeah and it's really just stripping away the stuff and I because here's why that's important and when when I get that when I accomplish that instead of just ignoring the stuff and do the deal because it fits my check boxes and it's a deal approve it send them on down the road instead of doing that when I sit and I have a conversation I establish some level of trust between the customer I'm just getting to a place where I want the customer to understand we're starting this relationship from a place of mutual trust. Okay. And I'm going to do everything I can to maintain that. Okay. So that just means I know when I say that to the customer, I'm going to do my part to make sure that we're upstanding, transparent, honest, supportive. I'm going to do my part. And I can't, you touched on it some more. You talked about it earlier. It's like, I can't expect you to be honest if I haven't been honest with you. That's not fair. That's never going to work in any relationship. It's like, I can't hold you. I expect you to always be honest with me. Yet I'm not being fully transparent and honest with you. It's like, this is part of where I think we establish a basis of trust, whatever that is required. And this is part of the thing that I think you know, as dealers grow, what I'm describing here, a really personalized sort of conversation and effort at the point of closing, some feel like they can't justify that. And that's not their business model. I think they can expect to see higher charge-offs if they're not able to, you know, address this particular thing. And maybe that's their business model and they live with that. I'm just simply saying when we can establish some degree of trust with the customer at the beginning, and now it becomes easier to maintain because my position on that's always been, If you're the customer, Michelle, and I get you to tell me about some of the ugliest parts of your credit circumstances and you get honest, you come clean and you share with me the particulars about your credit circumstances and we still move forward, then now we're in a place where you know that there's really nothing you can't talk to me about. We're still doing business. The moment that you can, you can help someone to feel safe and being vulnerable with you. I mean, it does. It's, it's, that's, that's a huge, that's a huge trust. And I just want them to be able to openly communicate with me and not be fearful about whatever, whatever it is that's going on. We can talk about it. And I used to also say personally, and I asked my managers to adopt the same approach. And certainly you can do recorded closings, video closings that can speak to this sort of thing. But I would say if I were recording a video for my own dealership or for a dealership that we were advising, the language would be in there to the extent of, look, there shouldn't be anything that comes up during the time that you're financing this car. If it's thirty six months, forty two months, there shouldn't be anything that happens during the life of this loan with us that we can't work out together. As long as you communicate with us, we're going to figure out ways to solve the problem together. And so they're going to have responsibility. I'm going to come forward and share in the responsibility. And we're going to work together to get through whatever it is. But if we can't communicate, we can't solve problems. Right. And so this is, again, trust. We start with trust and then we can work to maintain that. And we do that through making ongoing trust deposits throughout the relationship. And we just do that and it will likely be reciprocated. And like for as I we're closing up, The one thing that I, one of the things that was spit out and I was like, thank you, thank you, thank you, is humanizing the relationship. Yeah. And, you know, that is also, that's like an interpersonal thing, but it's also in vernacular that we use. So I'm going to start with the vernacular and go to the interpersonal. Please, please, please, please be aware if you are referring to your customers as these people. Good point. Yep. Because that is a division. It's other. They are our customers. And I love this because it's like our partners. It's like our customers are our partners because treating customers like partners, not just like numbers, can break the wall of mistrust. Dealer teams can be trained in empathy-based sales and account management practices, which is central to the White Hat Way ethos. Yeah, good. Yeah, that's good. It's probably a good place to wrap up. I think that we'll be more successful in the buyer, payer business when we can treat our customers like the human beings and show them. Someone treats me like a person instead of just a number. Well, you know, we all have to deal with businesses and it's just it's so frustrating when it's just there's not any level of empathy or whatever to what it is that I'm experiencing career separation it really really does and again and this is something that is just every time I hear this these people it's just like it's it's like fingernails down the chalkboard for me. So, you know, start to be aware of what kind of language you use and what kind of language your team uses because you're in the same boat together and you're not in separate boats. You're in the same boat together. So these are our partners. All right, everybody. Thanks so much for joining. We know you've got a lot to do and we appreciate your support of The Morning Show and The White. So be with us on Friday again at nine a.m. Yeah, there you go. We'll talk to you later.
