Wake up, Buy Here, Pay Here people. It's a beautiful day. Go grab yourself another cup of Joe and say hello to Jim and Michelle Rhodes on the Buy Here, Pay Here Morning Show. Take it away, you two. Gracious. Good morning, everyone. Happy Wednesday. Welcome to the studio in North Ogden, Utah. Yes, it's a beautiful day. So windy last night. I had to go out and check my trees when I woke up this morning thinking that everything is still... We didn't hear anything crashing. Are they your trees? I have them. Do you talk to them? We need to figure that out. Well, you know, they love me. Because I get up and... clear out all the dead stuff. That's true. You do have a kind of unique sort of thing going on. I do, yeah. Yeah, all good. I just wanted to also add that we saw something this morning that we don't often see because of the winds. Oh, yeah. We were able to see on the top of the mountain the winds blowing the snow over, first of all by clouds, but then you can see it's actually just blowing snow over the top of the the mountain which you know happens people have been skiing up at the top of the mountain they see that on occasion but we don't see it snow basin ski resort which is where they do the downhill for the olympics they did that back in was it um they're going to be doing it there again when the olympics come back to utah and so we can see the back side of it so I if you have watched last year At the top of the run, you can see Ogden, which is where we live. And so it was kind of fun to watch just the, it was pretty, pretty breezy. It's pretty windy today. Yeah. So we have a special guest today. And happy to bring in from pastime GPS, Corinne Kirkendall. Welcome, Corinne. Good morning, Corinne. Hey, so glad to have you. Thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate it. I just want to say I feel like you know you would be a good nurturer of those trees so they probably are she does oh my goodness yeah I there's more story I'll tell you when we go to niada about that I'm like I had to go see the doctor yeah um one of them just like too much pollen Too much pollen. That's her pollen, by the way. I blame her. Is it my pollen? What's your pollen? You've planted the trees already. So yeah, it's all good. So it is my pollen. They're my children. Yeah, that's right. So Corinne was one also, you know, Corinne is a pastime GPS. She is the EVP. And so that is the, say the words, the executive vice president of compliance and regulatory affairs at Okay. Thank you. Executive Vice President of Compliance and Regulatory Affairs. Those of you who go to conferences see this pretty lady all the time. She's just absolutely delightful. And we had the honor of having her come through our our first data. Yeah, we should have introduced her as White Hat Certified Corinne Kirkendall. White Hat Certified Corinne Kirkendall, yeah. So she was here with us in Ogden, Utah for the certification course and just really, really delightful. Yeah, had fun. It's always fun to hang around with Corinne. She's got fond stories and just got a vibrant personality. But we're here to talk about sort of non-legal matters. around. He's like, this is not legal talk. Yeah. In fact, I got a little fun thing I teed up to be able to show the scrolls across the bottom. Jim and Michelle, The Morning Show, Yatway, Corinne Kirkendall. We're not attorneys and we're not offering legal advice here today. So seek the advice of an attorney, right? So I got to get these disclosures in. I've got plenty of attorneys you can go and talk to if you want to talk to them. That's right. That's right. We know a few too. And so I think the idea is we're kind of, we're trying to help dealers do create clarity in contracts, right? This is, we're talking today about contracts and I gotta tell you, one of the things that we've been doing a lot, we're slow, we're late to the party with ChatGPT, but in going out in there and asking it to, you know, kind of provide topics that would be of interest, One of the things I'm fascinated is how much it knows about White Hat Way just by the phrase alone. So that's kind of validating and some of what's happened there. But when we do that and we ask it to feedback the stuff, it delivered this topic today as one of the things that, you know, would be relevant for our dealer audience. So we're glad to have you here to talk about this idea. And when I saw the topic, I was like, I know who we should ask. Right. Absolutely. I love contracting. I like all this stuff. Yeah. Yes. And that's, that's, uh, that's, it just makes an awful lot of sense. And I also knew because you are White Hat certified that you would really be able to kind of, uh, um, focus your, your, your thoughts around like that kind of thing. And, and, and one of the reasons why we had you come, well, not just, just not because you're delightful. Um, but pastime GPS is one of our founding sponsors. And also is our sponsor this year, uh, uh, for VA and, and because, and the reason why they're founding sponsors is that way prior to us coming onto the scene that the principles of white hat way are already foundational with the company. I mean, absolutely. So, so it was a really easy, easy thing for them to go. Yeah. Let's do this kind of thing. So, um, Yeah. So maybe, Corinne, you can just start us with kind of your your view of when you think about a retail installment contract that's executed between a dealer and consumer. Like, what have you seen? We know you've had conversations with the regulatory people. Like, what do you see and what do you think dealers can know that can help them, you know, make sure their consumers understand what they're saying? So and we talked about this a little beforehand, and I think this is the most important part is that we write a contract or we create a contract that consumers sign. So it's direct to consumers from the dealer in connection with that retail installment contract. And so it's about making it readable for them. It's about making it with language that they understand. But on the other side of it, I also understand it has to be written that has all the legal language in it and that you want to make sure that the contract holds because it is a contract and it is a legal contract. Um, when we were talking with the FTC, one of the big things they said to us, and I thought this was just so earth shattering and it shouldn't have been, but it was, um, that in the, in the agreement that we wrote, um, it was great, but at the top to have bullet points of everything that's inside that agreement. And, and to me that was like, wow. Okay. So we're gonna bullet point everything out so that you already have the agreement. It's still set. Nothing has changed, but then you're giving them a kind of a snapshot of what is inside of it which makes it easier to read and so if for some reason they choose not to read the whole agreement which don't they just want to get through that they want to get that vehicle um that they're at least reading those bullet points and so it's it's a good snapshot of what they're going to get and they know what they're signing so and that to me is kind of that simplified easy language. And that came straight from the FTC. And I was like, that's a really good, um, kind of ticket to the industry of like, Hey, at least do this to help them, you know? So. Yeah. And you see when, um, you know, I've sat and, and I've been through closing on a car, I've been through closing on a house. They're both very thick, the paperwork, it's, there's just an awful lot to go through more so with the house, but, um, and most people don't take the time to read it. And so, You know, when you're sitting there with a representative of the company that they're just like, and they're just giving the highlights. Those bullets are frequently what they're saying verbally, but it does help an awful lot for them to be able to read those bullets as well. Because, you know, and this is something that we've discussed so many times that in the course of you've gone through this whole process, you know, you're excited about the thing. How much of us listen? to all of the things. Well, as a former dealer myself, and having sat with plenty of customers, I don't remember customers reading the thing and, and, you know, that, that doesn't make sense that they would sit and read every line of the contract, but you know, we've, we always try to afford them the opportunity, but I only take your time to read all that, but we'll need your signature on that last page, you know? And, uh, but I just, they don't, they're not gonna read the thing in its entirety. So that doesn't mean that we, as a dealer, You know, wouldn't want the customer to be apprised of everything. You know, we don't want to surprise them with enforcement of a contract, you know? Right. So, so that's where we want them to understand the thing. So I think this opportunity that we have here is to create language that the customer can understand the dealer can deliver consistently, right? This is the part that for me, when we add language or we add something, some verbal explanation. then, you know, we want to be careful about that. But certainly we want to be consistent in whatever we do to make sure every customer hears the same thing. So thoughts on that part, Corinne? Yes. I would also say there's so many tools now, I think, to show outside of just the actual contract language. You can show videos, you can, you know, you can show the audio, then you can run a screen. Like there's just so many other things you can do that I think help that consumer break up that signing process. And I think that's important also because sometimes they're just sitting there signing and signing and signing, and then they skip the important parts. The other thing I was thinking through is some of the language that might be difficult to understand. So if you're saying, well, annual percentage rate APR, a consumer might not know what annual percentage rate APR is, but if you say your interest rate you will pay, that's a more usable term that people use all the time. And so that kind of breaks it down for that consumer differently. It means the same thing, but it like, it just changes it a little bit so that they understand you're not using, because sometimes you get stuck on that acronym and you miss everything else that comes after it, right? Like, oh, I got to go look up that acronym. I don't know what that was. And you miss everything else. And you might totally understand the second part, but you get stuck on that first part. So sometimes changing that language of things like you're used to saying, because you're in the industry and breaking it down for that consumer to make it, simpler. Well, it's funny, you know, it's like they don't understand the acronyms helped put a few, you know, a bunch of dealers into business. And when you start training them, you start using acronyms that everybody knows and they're like dead with that. And so, you know, you APR and those kind of things that you hear them go on a Ford commercial or, you know, whatever. But it is, I agree with you, acronyms that we use every day. And we just assume that people understand what they mean. And this actually is, you know, I love what you were pointing out there because that's actually one of the things that we're developing for education for consumers. So that they can understand some of the different elements of what a contract means. and how it affects them and some of the different things. So thank you. That's very, very true. What do they say? You have to use language at about a fifth grade level in order for most of your consumers to really understand what it is saying. Because I don't know about you, but I find the word of the day, and it's a fifty dollar word. And I use it all the time. And people are always going like, And I feel so smart, but, you know, so just not everybody, not everybody understands all this stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Using words with lots of syllables, it sounds great, except when you're writing a contract for somebody, it's not, not a great idea. It's just the simple, but not, And not to downplay their education, because that's not what I'm doing, but you have to make it to a point where they understand it because they're not in the industry. We are. Like you said, we do it all the time. We train. We use the same acronyms. We use all this all the time. So it's normal to us. This is not normal for most people to go and buy a vehicle and run through the work and understand it. So you have to simplify it. Just like if I was going to go maintenance a boat, you better simplify that for me because I have no idea. Right. I can look it up, but I'm not going to go sit and look it up while I'm trying to fix a boat. I think the other thing is there's a lot of negative connotation around dealers and going through that process. It takes too long or they're going to try to screw me or blah, blah, blah. We all know that's not true. There's great dealers out there. We know lots of them that do that really try to work with the consumer, that they're spending time with them and educating them. And so being as clear and transparent as you can. And sometimes that's just spending a little extra time with them to help them understand what they're getting, why they're getting it, asking questions, just using straightforward language that everybody understands. And I think that really helps. And just kind of the white hat way, just make sure you're showing your heart, like show that you care about what they're doing, understand them and why they're getting it. and what they're getting. And I always say, if you're going to use a device, make sure in there, you can use a starter and make sure you're very clear about override codes. And I know that some people don't want to because they'll abuse them, whatever. But the reality is those override codes are really important for them. If they're in an emergency or they're in something they need to get their groceries from the grocery store and they can use that override code, they need to understand how to use it. So you have to be clear and transparent about what they're getting. And that only makes that relationship between them and the dealer better and stronger. And it makes them want to send more people to you. It just builds a better relationship in general. Yeah. So I just think, Corinne, I think back to the early days of GPS and some of the dealers that are newer to the space may not recognize why those emergency codes are even there. Like those came about as a result of a lot of litigation and things that happened in the early days of GPS where it just became necessary to give folks an opportunity when there was a legitimate emergency situation to get past that. Pregnant mom goes into labor, all the things that you can imagine could happen where they needed to be able to act in emergency. So I think you touched on that with the The disclosure, I want to ask, since we've got you here from a GPS provider, we know there are GPS disclosures, and I'm wondering, do we have some basis for, are we legally required to do so? Is it strongly encouraged to have the disclosure? I mean, where are we at with those disclosures? We obviously would suggest to everybody do it regardless of the legal thing, but what do we know about the actual legal requirements? So you have to provide a disclosure. You have to provide a clear consent disclosure to the consumer. It's an unfair deceptive practice if you don't, according to the FTC and CFPB. So they can come back and say you're providing an unfair deceptive practice. There's a ton of states. I'm currently tracking six or nine states that are doing just consent GPS bills right now. And it's standard bills that say, okay, if you have a GPS unit, you need to have the consent of the owner to do it. Even if you're doing it as a legitimate business practice, that still needs consent of the owner. And those are bills we support. I wholeheartedly support. You need to add consent to the consumer. They need to understand what is in their vehicle, why it's in there, what the features are, how it functions. It shouldn't be a surprise. And then they also need to understand that it that this device is connected to the retail installment contract. It's connected to you getting this car. And so if you're going to get this asset, we are putting in this feature. And if you tamper with this feature, you remove it. We have the ability to go and repossess the vehicle because you were in default of that contract. So I think those are and that's really important as well, that you talk about like what the default is. This is a default. You tamper with this device that you're agreeing to. we can go and remove. And that's all part of the consent. You're providing consent to them and you're saying, these are the terms of this consent that you're providing to us. And we can track reflecting the data. We're gonna track you on a regular basis to make sure that the device is functioning properly. And these are all things we've talked to the FTC and CFPB about and other state regulators. And they understand that The device is tracking because it has to track. It has to do a regular check in and make sure it's functioning properly. So if we need to go and access it or use it or the creditor needs to access and use it, they have the ability to do so. So we're not just tracking a customer to track them. We're tracking for a legitimate business purpose. This is more around the GPS, but it is about, you know, does this cover in the contract? I recently this weekend saw a post from one of the dealers, uh, actually, I think it was Ken, um, and, uh, our director of, uh, and, um, he is, he's still active by her pay here. And he said that he had a customer that, um, that had, uh, defaulted. And, um, when they, when they, uh, the first time they repossessed the car, the GPS unit had been taken out. And so they put two wired GPS units and a non-wired GPS unit. And when she defaulted again and they repossessed, she had taken out the two wired and had the one that was not wired, which happened to be past time. And so they were able to find the car. Is there anything in contracts that's like, if there are multiple devices in a vehicle, I mean, how much is that need to be disclosed? Like we've put three devices on your car. So I would say that's a legal question, but I will answer it with this. If you're using a disclosure and it says devices, you are covered. I mean, in our eyes. I would definitely run it by your legal team or Hudson Cook or somebody to um to make sure they're okay with it based on your state but um if it says devices you've used devices and you've disclosed that there's there could be multiple devices in the vehicle as long as that's the plural devices yeah that that makes an awful lot of sense but I you know that doesn't happen with everybody and I and I think that the reason why ken did that was because they'd already repoed once and had taken out a device And so it's like, well, we're going to just try to make sure that we keep it. And there's lots of people that do that, that once they go and do the reinstatement, they add in another device because they've already shown a system of default and they've already shown that they have this habit of defaulting. And if they have tampered with that device upon that default, then you know that you're going to need to add an extra device and just to secure your own asset to make sure that you can get it back if you need to. And we have reinstatement disclosures too. So you can add an additional disclosure if you want at reinstatement and say, all right, we, you know, we reinstated you, but as part of the reinstatement, we're adding in another disclosure or adding in another device. Yeah. So the couple of things in a contract that I think, you know, as a former dealer, I think I used to read these things like coach and advisors, non-attorney, we would still read just to make sure we knew what the contents of the contract would be so that, you know, we could help, sometimes it's a help in choosing a contract because dealer may have a library and their software of different providers, you know, with the contract. So we, there are a couple of things that come to mind for me, like, you know, if I'm a consumer and I read a little clause or paragraph in the contract that says they're remedies, I'm thinking, well, does that mean this comes with cough medicine or what's that about? Like, you know, they're not familiar with the word remedies, right. In terms of an enforcement thing. So it's like, I think we want to, simplify language. And to your point, when you do that without looting the legal language, it has to remain. But I think what I, what I shared was one thing I ran across in my own research is that there's something called, um, that dealers are reportedly using something called why it matters language, which sort of takes the legal paragraph and drops a little addendum either right behind it, or, you know, in the, in a, some sort of an addendum that says why this part matters. So I appreciate that they would be taking, um, going to some effort to help the customer understand this is why this stuff is important. And the thing that I usually when I have the attorneys around, I try to ask them about something I came to understand as an insecurity clause. So what I mean by that is if I feel as a as a creditor insecure about our business arrangement or that I have some fear that the collateral is being damaged or otherwise compromised, Then I could, it afforded me as a creditor, the opportunity to act in moments where I might feel insecure. Now I'm just phrasing it because it's kind of in this context of, you know, what is the language that we, that we have and what, because one of the things we see current across social media is dealers are especially uncomfortable about this idea of consumers overusing a car in terms of miles. based on using it for ride sharing purposes or whatever. So this sort of starts to cross into this thing about insecurity. And I think we just need to make sure that we understand what the language of the contract says. And if we need to get with an attorney and do an amendment or addendum or choose a different contract, it would provide us as a creditor with a little more protection. I think not only do we, from a White Hat Way perspective, We would like to see the dealer have the contract that protects them adequately and has all the necessary legal language. We would also be advising them to make sure that they're transparent and fully disclosed in the interest of making sure the customer understands the nature of the agreement. And kind of for me, you know, in our Appendix W, one of the things we really strive is this idea of good fences. You know, I come from Oklahoma and farm and ranch country. And you think about what the metaphor that a good fence means. And when we step into a business relationship, I think it's especially helpful to start from a place of trust, start from a place of a clear understanding. So that's our title of the broadcast here today is why clarity builds trust, right? So it's like when we have a clear understanding and for that to be a clear understanding, the consumer who's signing the document needs to understand what it is that they're signing, right? What is it that they're being asked to do? And I think that's even especially important in our work of buy here, pay here, because if Michelle is a customer of mine, if I'm the dealer and Michelle's done business with three other buy here, pay here dealers in the past, but this is our first time doing business with me. I think it's one thing to understand how a car contract works. It's another thing to understand how our enforcement works. Now, we don't have to say everything, but certainly my hope would be that the customer today understands everything we can possibly help them understand about the way we do business, the way we enforce contracts, what our expectations are, and express that as clearly as we possibly can, again, without compromising the legal part, but I haven't found it. Corinne, I asked you before we started the broadcast. I haven't seen dealers using that. It's just some of my research suggests that that's happening, but I think it's, I don't have an objection as long as it helps the customer understand what it is that they're actually signing and why it's important, right? I agree with you. I'm sorry, Michelle, go ahead. No, you go. I love that. I love that how you kind of, why it matters to them. Like that's, that's, Talk about why it matters. Write it down so they understand it. I think that's similar to the bullet point thing that I talked about at the beginning. Some of the terms that are in contracts are defined terms by the state or by a regulator. And so that's why they're so like remedy might be a defined term. And so they have to use it. But you're right. It's you're reading it. A consumer might be like remedy. Right. Like that's weird. But they're not going to ask you because then they're going to sound stupid. They're going to like you're going to have the upper hand. So I do think having that kind of broken out air just to talk about these are the highlights. These are the most important sections of this agreement. And this is why it's important to you and talk through that. So at least they feel like they have a say in what's happening and they understand what's going on. They understand what they're signing. And I think that's similar to that language that you talked about that you found. I think that would be a great way just to kind of get the consumer on the same page as everyone else. Yeah. Absolutely. One of the things that we really encourage, and we've mentioned this many times before on the podcast, is when you're going through this process, there's a lot of words, big words that are thrown at you, and there's a lot of excitement, and there's a lot of getting a new car and all of that. And so even if you go through and you explain everything, there's a high probability that a lot of it will be dumped out of the brain because that's just human. That's what happens. It's drinking out of a fire hose. It's drinking out of a fire hose. And so, yeah, we really encourage dealers to take the opportunity to educate post-sale. And so, like this thing of why it matters, that could be a series of little video text messages or something like that. I thought that that can be fun. It's like, okay, so now we're hoping you're enjoying the car. And then a couple of things, you're going to be getting a few of these for the next couple of days about why it matters. And, and just re re like the, the high points, the things that, that dealers adhere to really, and really need the consumer to, to, um, understand and, and know that they can come and talk. And there's a problem around these things. Come and talk to us. But using that, you know, and this is like post-contract, but it still is, it's not a legal document to send them a video. But I believe the CFPB would go, oh, that's awesome. You know, that you're making sure beyond that there's this, so we make sure that you understand. And I don't see really very many people ever doing that. But I mean, how useful that would be to be able to, oh yeah, that's right. Oh yeah, that's right. And then it just, it cements the different things. And it's like, you know, why this matters. And if it's a problem, come and talk to us. So, you know, whatever. Yeah. It's just those extra points with the consumer, I think is important. Just continuing to have those points. Yeah, if I just try to ask dealers to think about this through a white hat lens, it's like if I'm sitting with a customer and we recognize there are providers out there, software solutions trying to create, you know, a closing that is, you know, more kind of encapsulated and discloses all the stuff consistently, which is could be a really nice thing. I think disclosing fully, you know, doesn't necessarily mean the customer understands every part of it. So I think the part that I'm trying to drive home, if I'm a white hat dealer closing a loan with a customer today, I'm going to bring everything to my approach that says I want the customer to understand. I'm making this pledge to you today that says it's important to us that you have every opportunity to be successful in this agreement, which means if there's some parts of this you don't understand, we want you to speak to us and let's gain some clarity around that. Let's make sure you understand because I think the difference is The tone that I bring at closing is such that your success is important to me, Mr. or Mrs. Customer or whatever. It's like your success is important to us. And so we want to drive home that piece of it. It's not that we're going to yank some trap door in the contract because our attorney said we could. It's not our intention to... to take advantage. We want you to understand and have every opportunity to be successful. One quick thought on that. It's like we had Candice Price out of Nebraska. I don't know if you know Candice in Omaha. And she used a phrase on her broadcast once that we've since adopted, which is this idea of the knowledge gap, which is really speaking to financial illiteracy. And we know that's a thing. And so this is part of what we're talking about here. The contracts you know, for me, that kind of starts with the car math. Does the customer understand the financing and kind of how that works? Simple interest. If that's what we're doing, go through the stuff and help the customer make sure we understand without again, being condescending. We're not talking down to them. We just want to make sure that they're apprised, right? Of all the stuff. And so this is something that we want to make available to them. And this is kind of the white hat approach to all those things. Like it's one thing to have the customer sign a contract. It's another, you know, we see a lot of dealers using tablets and have the customer, you know, go through the stuff and sign the tablet. And I guess there may or may not be any kind of verbal support of that process. They get the signatures. Is it legal? Yeah. But does the customer really understand what they're signing? I think that's the part that I would have a hard time being sure. And if I'm the one who's responsible for enforcing that contract, and I always say to our dealers, Corinne, I say, you know, if it's a new dealer getting into the space, I say, you know, you want to be able to sleep well at night. And one of the ways you can sleep well at night is feel sure that you did your part, you helped the customer, you gave the customer every opportunity to be successful. And if they fail on their side, then they fail and you may have to take action. But you just always wanna know that you didn't contribute to any kind of failure on their part. And I think what you're telling me today goes a long way in that regard. Your thoughts? I, yeah, I, I like the tablet. I think it's great. And it feels like a new age, you know, kids are getting cars and, oh, we're going to sign on a tablet instead of a whole bunch of paper. So I feel like that does kind of bring in that kind of technology piece. So they feel like you're up to speed on and understand them. So I feel like there's a piece to that. Um, you're right there's a there's an element of um personality too and making sure that you're connecting with that con that customer and a lot of that happens before they even get to the tablet so a lot of that is just understanding them what they need what their needs are why they're getting a vehicle what um the api looking for what you know what are their price range they're looking for so it's getting to that point so when they get to the tablet they can run through it and then you can kind of talk them through HP says they're signing it. So I, I think in the technology, but you've got to have that, you've got to have that person to person as well. You're never going to keep that customer. They're going to know they come in and can sign a tablet, but you need to be able to connect with them. So they want to come back and they want to send their cousin back and their brother and want them all to come back and, and use you and know that they had a good experience. So there has to be some type of connection as well. Absolutely. And to me, there's two pieces of this with the connection. One is slow down. And I know everyone's in a hurry to get through, but when you're blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And having someone who's, because sometimes the salesperson's the one that's collecting, sometimes it's the underwriter that's collecting, sometimes it's the the the uh collections manager or something like that that that's that's doing all of the not doing the the closing of the contract but taking the time and you know there's there is slowing down but there's also um yeah I know this this is it's not easy if you're a really really busy dealership but It becomes repetitive. It becomes like a robot. And yes, we want to make sure we get through every little point. There are some softwares and things like that that can help you with that. But, but when you're in a robot phase, you're not human and you're not approachable. And it's just like, this is just contract BS, you know, and, and they're just, they just want to get through it because there's, there's a level of uncomfortableness. But when, you know, I've been through closing of house, different types and I love, I've loved my experience when it's someone that can say something funny in the middle of the thing, or, you know, just, and, and have some conversation through it, slow it down, make it human. And, um, and you know, when, when you're, when you're monotone and going through the things, then it, it does not encourage them to listen to what you're saying. Have fun. They want, they want to get in and out of there. So at least make it fun for them and. Offer water. Everybody gets parts. Get him some water. Jim, when he was in the dealership, he was Rick Reeves' graduate. Well, he worked for Rick Reeves. And one of the things that he encouraged people to do is have a popcorn machine in your lobby. And Jim, he said, you know, I noticed human nature that when you ask if they want it, they always said no. But when he would go over there and grab some and give it to them. They would go through at least that bag of popcorn because it just, you know, kind of just calms things down, gives them. Yeah. So in terms of goodwill. But yeah, I think that the part that I am aware of here, Corinne, is that when we think about. Because we talked about the fire hose element, a lot of information coming out of them. There's also a fatigue factor often because by the time we're sitting down signing the contract, this customer could have been with us an hour and a half, you know, by the time a test drove and an application. It kind of can be a lengthy process, right? I mean, dealers are all the time trying to make it more efficient and move more quickly. I think, though, what I'm hearing and Michelle talking about, you know, if it's robotic and we don't have time to slow down and help the customer make sure they understand what they're signing, I would say we're too busy. Because if we're spending an hour and a half with the customer and the customer's got a toddler pulling on their sleeve or whatever, it's challenging. And I want to make sure if the customer needs to come back tomorrow, a lot of dealers will hear me say that and say, oh no, I'm doing the deal now. Well, if it's a difference between doing the deal tomorrow with a customer who fully understands the agreement they're stepping into, why? Because we believe the customer is going to be not only a three-year business relationship, but a ten-year business relationship. And so is another day. really you know I'd rather schedule to have them come back and finalize when we can can cover all the stuff because we really just want to make sure we're stepping into a long and important business relationship and we want to give the customer the opportunity to be successful and to me that that starts with making sure they are clear about what the how the arrangement works and how they can save money on interest and how they can avoid you know what this and that and so this is part of what I think you know just we got to be able to slow it down a little bit and I think if we can't afford to slow it down then we're a little too busy. We're going to pay a price for that in another way. I love the idea of the toddler because I have a four-year-old and I've been through the buying process with a four-year-old and it's not fun. And we did have to walk away and say, I cannot do this right now. And he said, that's okay. Come back tomorrow. We'll hold the vehicle for you. Come back tomorrow. We'll finish everything. Put it all through. Here's what we need when you come in to make it go faster. Make sure you have all this for us. Okay, great. Talk about goodwill to know that you can walk away. You found a vehicle you wanted. You're so excited about it. You want to drive that vehicle home, right? But things go the way they go. You have a four-year-old who's running amok in that place. He's ready to, you know, run open doors and run down windows. And I'm like, we got to get out of here. And so knowing that you could go back the next day and they're going to hold that vehicle for you. It's going to be in the same shape it was before. Nobody had test drove it. It's your vehicle and they're holding it for you from the next day. Talk about some goodwill you created with that customer. Like I I'll go back to that dealership all day long. I've recommended. Ten, fifteen people to go back to that dealership because the experience we had with them. And they're not one of our dealers. It's a dealer I don't even, I have no connection to. So I think that's pretty cool when you can create goodwill like that and they can say, it's okay. And they followed up with us and said, hey, what time you're going to come in today? Here's what we need. Just want to remind you. Well, it'll be fast. We'll get through this quick. That's just goodwill. And, you know, that makes the customer feel better and it makes them want to show up and finish the deal with you. And this is applicable to everything. credit score level. It's applicable to every credit score level. And our customers, regardless of their credit circumstances, deserve respect. Amen to that. Amen to that. Yeah. Thank you. And Jim gets a little emotional because it's just that this is like the whole foundational piece to what White Hat Way is about is that we see, you know, people you get knocked down and you don't need to be kicked in the gut. And so when, when you're, when you're down, when you're, you know, and we, we like many of our customers are very disadvantaged, not just because of their credit circumstances, but you know, it's just like showing some kindness, showing some compassion, showing some humanity, showing some, you know, all of those things and giving them, yeah, there's so many scriptures like do unto others as you would have done unto you, you know, all of that. It's like, Be the person that you would want to sit across the table from during a stressful experience. And Jim, I'm with you. It hits me hard too. We used to be that credit customer. We were that hard struck customer and that's how we started Pastime. That's why every time we create a new policy, or we talk about taking consumer calls. We are doing it from the point of we were that customer at some point. I remember going into the dealerships with my parents. My mom, my dad didn't have a vehicle. My mom drove a fifty one Chevy. It had no power steering. The brakes were terrible and no seat belts. And we would drive down these hills in Colorado in the middle of the snow. And she would say, hold on. And we would, you know, and it was terrifying. And then she'd say, okay, we're going to go look at a car. And we'd go look at a car and we're like, oh, I'm not sure if we can get that, you know? And so we would turn around and leave and we'd go back in our fifty one Chevy. And, you know, and I remember being that customer and I remember with my dad going and visiting dealers when he first started pastime. So being that being compassionate to that consumer at every level is so important because they deserve to understand what they're getting just as much as the other person. And the more respect and compassion you show to get them through that process to help them understand it, again, creates that customer that wants to come back and wants to see you again and wants to bring their friends to you. And that's why I think I'm so grateful to be a part of White Hat Way because it completely depicts everything that we were as when I was little growing up and we were creating pastime mats That's what we did is we were trying to we were trying to just get through the process and people were compassionate to us. And we were able to start past time to now kind of give back to that same thing. And White Hat way capsulizes everything that we went through. So I'm glad that we can now hopefully show other dealers that that the right way to do it and make sure that you're you're treating each customer with the same respect they deserve. Yeah, exactly. Some watching will recognize, but Corinne referred to her late father, who was one of the co-founders of Pastime. And so I met Stan and I remembered some of those conversations around that. But I would say the biggest testament to everything you just described is the fact that Pastime has been in business for how many years now? Thirty plus, right? Yeah. Nineteen ninety two. Yeah, we've been around a long time. I've been here for years. Yeah, this is earliest days. So I always try to make sure people understand. Of course, today's an opportunity for them to get to know you. And we always talk about it's important, we think, for folks to get to know the people behind the product. And I think the story behind the company helps. Let people get to know the story and why you do what you do. Pastime is now a very large global company that started in the buy here, pay here segment. As far as I can remember, the early days were really around auto financing and especially subprime credit. And so this is a company who has been built on that and they certainly have a wide footprint now. And all sorts of, even equipment right now. Medical, yeah, we do lots of stuff now. It's incredible, the growth. But that's why I love going and talking to the regulators and the legislatures and just telling them like, this is our story, this is what we do. And I know you're trying to create laws or create regulations that are helping consumers. And let me tell you what we're doing to help consumers to show you that sometimes the regulations that you're doing is negatively affecting them instead of helping them. And usually if you can sit down and explain to them what's really happening in the industry and what we're really doing and can show them like real life effects of people and testimonies it makes a difference and and they understand that you know we're not the big bad wolf and we're not just tracking people you know and I'm so jake stands behind us and jake you know our own owner and he says like go get them you know go talk to them tell them what we're doing I wholeheartedly support you this is what we're built on like so we're I'm so fortunate that's awesome yeah I think um you know we've covered it I think that What White Hat Way, you know, is striving to do is infuse trust between buyers and sellers. And so, you know, that can start right here at the point of a brand new business relationship or signing a contract. It will slow down and create some clarity and transparency. Make sure the customer understands the arrangements they're entering into. Because we always say Michelle and I can't make customers or make dealers care. They either care or they don't. And so if you care, and there's plenty of them that do, right? If you really care, here's an opportunity to create through transparency, build trust with that customer. And now you can, it's much easier to maintain that trust once you've established it. But I think establishing it from the point of closing is what I would recommend. And then, you know, the pastime GPS device, of course, it's there for enforcement and we all hope it never has to be used for that purpose, right? So there's lots of other benefits of having that GPS in place, but we hope it doesn't have to be used in that regard. And one of the ways we can avoid that is with really great communication. Yep. Tell them they can talk to your creditor before it gets to the point where the device needs to be shut down. You're communicating with them to communicate back with you. Good, good. Karen, thank you. It's just such a pleasure. You know, there's a lot of fest going on here because I really, really enjoy just Karen on a personal level. Thank you again for joining us. Really appreciate your story and your insight. And especially because you are one of the people that has for and with NIEDA been at the legislative conference in Washington, D.C., and is there talking to legislators, talking to on a, you know, state levels and national levels. And so just from us, thank you for all the work that you've done to make sure that dealers have a voice and that you're also approaching it from the consumer side as well. So thank you. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Thanks. Stand by just a minute. We'll wrap up the show. We usually, you know, put you backstage again. Stand by just a minute. We'll, we'll wrap up. But yeah, I think that's, that's so important. Like the, the idea that we, um, you know, have the chance to, to, through this work, you know, ways out there trying to work to create that situation where we shine a spotlight on those people who are doing things the right way, quote, you know, the transparent way and trying to, uh, you know, be, be good neighbors in their communities. And so we just try to shine a light on that and help and surely help with the regulators to know that that, Those exist. Certainly there are troublemakers out there. But most of our dealers that we know are certainly striving to uphold these kind of principles and function in that way. So thanks again for joining us, folks. We'll see you back here on Friday. We know you have an awful lot to do. We really appreciate you making us a part of your day. We will see you on Friday. And we will be talking about extra communication with your consumers to help encourage
